Verbal warnings - Saw something strange yesterday

This is a discussion on Verbal warnings - Saw something strange yesterday within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I've had various training and the direction has typically be using simple commands with a firm voice ("stop,"don't move"), along with statements like "if you ...

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    Senior Member Array cn262's Avatar
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    Verbal warnings - Saw something strange yesterday

    I've had various training and the direction has typically be using simple commands with a firm voice ("stop,"don't move"), along with statements like "if you take another step towards me I will shoot." Minor variations, but overall consistency.

    Yesterday I visited a LGS that I don't like much anymore (they increased their prices much more than other stores, then the owner was interviewed a few times making anti-2A statements). I'm not in that area often so I thought I would walk through. Next door there is a training facility, and they were teaching a Concealed Carry course to one person (with the door open).

    There was a slide being displayed stating three times, "Stop - Don't hurt me!" The instructor was telling his student to yell that as loud as you can, three times if you can, before shooting at the person. He commented that people may hear this and it will be helpful later.

    I'm no expert, but this seemed like very bad advice to me. First, it makes you look weak. I would think that this could motivate a hardcore BG to continue his attack or even increase it. Second, conditioning someone to yell that three times before defending yourself would likely take away precious time.

    In recent Force-on-Force training with a Tueller drill (other guy had either nothing, a rubber knife, or a Simunition gun and would shoot at you). It was only then (after nearly two years of training elsewhere) that the realization of how short 1.5 second and 21 feet really are - especially if the person doesn't pull the weapon (or phone) until they are 10-15 feet away from you. That was a huge wake-up call for me.

    Anyway, I'm curious to see what others think about this "Stop - Don't hurt me" approach. It seems almost negligent to me, but maybe I'm missing something. Thanks.

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    Array TX expat's Avatar
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    I don't give my kids three warnings before they feel the repercussions of unwise actions; no way would I extend that 'courtesy' to someone who was intent on doing me harm.
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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    IMO a simple STOP works...
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Yup, the guy or guys are gonna get a very aggressive STOP! whatever they are doing that has caused me to draw down on um from me and that's it. If they fail, well, they deserve every round I send their way.
    Warrior1256 likes this.
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    Senior Member Array Inspector71's Avatar
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    Maybe there's a reason only one person was in his class.
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    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    There was a slide being displayed stating three times, "Stop - Don't hurt me!" The instructor was telling his student to yell that as loud as you can, three times if you can, before shooting at the person. He commented that people may hear this and it will be helpful later.
    There could be a benefit in playing to an audience of potential witnesses in a self defense situation given the time and the opportunity to do so. I wouldn't expect to enjoy that luxury in all cases though.
    OPFOR and IsaiahM33 like this.

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    VIP Member Array Snub44's Avatar
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    ...the barrel of the gun screams "STOP RIGHT NOW"...no matter where it's aimed...

    ...I don't know of any law anywhere requiring a citizen who's assessed a threat to require deadly force to issue any verbal warnings...those instructors who're teaching as the above example are setting up citizens to get shot, because while they're bleating the mantras, the BG, seeing the gun, will be shooting...
    surefire7 and mano3 like this.

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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snub44 View Post
    ...the barrel of the gun screams "STOP RIGHT NOW"...no matter where it's aimed...

    ...I don't know of any law anywhere requiring a citizen who's assessed a threat to require deadly force to issue any verbal warnings...those instructors who're teaching as the above example are setting up citizens to get shot, because while they're bleating the mantras, the BG, seeing the gun, will be shooting...
    Snub I sort of agree with you, but from a civilian point of view, we need to realize that witnesses could be of some help to us. That is the reason to yell "STOP" to gain attention while stopping the threat....
    tdave and BigJon10125 like this.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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    Member Array SwordMaster's Avatar
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    If they have a clearly visible gun, you shoot immediately. If they have a knife or any other melee weapon and are more than 10yds away then (with your gun drawn and on the target) you can yell anything like what they commonly tell you to say and if he doesn't stop coming then, well, BANG, BANG and BANG! I think sayings like "don't hurt me" or "Go away, I don't want any trouble" are more for bystanders to establish a clear self defense situation for the witness statements after you shoot the BG. When youe gun is aimed at someone and they are walking at you with intent to do harm, nothing else need be said! (in a literal sense, not legal)
    kaikane0812 likes this.

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    VIP Member Array Snub44's Avatar
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    ...having studied a bit of reaction timing and how hard it is to do one thing while talking...I have to disagree...most witnesses aren't that good at remembering sequences and what was said...once the threat is realized/assessed, ALL mental resources should be focused on stopping the threat, worry about the aftermath afterwards...
    Hoganbeg, Bill MO and Oldpsufan like this.

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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Someone told me to "Stop, don't come any closer". They were spooked for some reason. I blew them off and kept walking. i thought they were going to pee their pants.

    On Topic: That instructor sounds like an idiot.
    CIBMike likes this.
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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snub44 View Post
    ...having studied a bit of reaction timing and how hard it is to do one thing while talking...I have to disagree...most witnesses aren't that good at remembering sequences and what was said...once the threat is realized/assessed, ALL mental resources should be focused on stopping the threat, worry about the aftermath afterwards...
    I understand and really do agree. I think that yelling stop is a natural response to danger. People can learn and train to yell stop while shooting and moving. It boils down to your OODA loop.
    kaikane0812 likes this.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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    VIP Member Array tdave's Avatar
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    My first priority is to survive the situation.If without inhibiting effective response to the situation I can prep to survive the aftermath so much the better. I have subdued offenders hands on where I repeatedly gave the command "Stop Resisting!" However once when taken by surprise I was too busy digging flabby tail out of the icky sticky to think about saying anything.

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    VIP Member Array Snub44's Avatar
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    ...old as I am, I haven't even checked the loop in my OODA to see if it's still there...I'm so slow to react physically that I'm sure that influences my thinking...my reaction time sucks...and I've never had professional training to see if I could improve it...so I count on anticipating and simplifying to compensate...I'm sure you run into that when you train old farts like me...

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    VIP Member Array Easy8's Avatar
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    I am old an not fast:) if they have a gun out threatening anyone I would shoot till they are on ground. Now if i see a gun an they are far enough away for me to get away an call police cool.
    Warrior1256 likes this.

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