Gun disarm, gun grab.

Gun disarm, gun grab.

This is a discussion on Gun disarm, gun grab. within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I am a strong advocate for being able to handle ones self with H2H techniques. I have studied Krav a little bit thru private instruction ...

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Thread: Gun disarm, gun grab.

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Gun disarm, gun grab.

    I am a strong advocate for being able to handle ones self with H2H techniques. I have studied Krav a little bit thru private instruction and Have found it very beneficial. If you have a gun in your face, this is a technique that can help you win the fight....

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    Although I doubt in the real world you would find yourself at 90 degrees to the shooter in the position shown, please
    look at about 2:08-2:15 as from that position one could not only effect a disarm, but drive the attacker right down to his knees.
    Note how the hands are clasped giving you considerable leverage on the wrist and forearm.

    May no one reading here ever need to play this dangerous disarm game in real life. Its jolly at the gym though.
    glockman10mm and darbo like this.
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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Although I doubt in the real world you would find yourself at 90 degrees to the shooter in the position shown, please
    look at about 2:08-2:15 as from that position one could not only effect a disarm, but drive the attacker right down to his knees.
    Note how the hands are clasped giving you considerable leverage on the wrist and forearm.

    May no one reading here ever need to play this dangerous disarm game in real life. Its jolly at the gym though.
    It was done at the 90 degrees for demonstration. I hope no one here has to play this game in real life either, but if you have to, its nice to have the tools to do so.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

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    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    My disarm technique is very similar to these done by Victor Marx.

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    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    This is a pretty good video discussing the "timing" of accomplishing disarms.


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    Small circle stuff as shown in post 4 around 4:40 ish is extremely effective but somewhat technique sensitive. Its a hoot in the gym to
    make your opponent go up and down and wherever you want him to. He also shows attacking fingers; a thing of beauty when done well. Unlike the large muscle group moves of Krav (nothing wrong with Krav) this stuff is art.

    I was at one "seminar" where some of this
    was referred to as the dance of pain. I hope I never (and no one here too) ever have to find out if it works in the real world.
    Last edited by Hopyard; May 31st, 2013 at 09:59 PM. Reason: typo corrected
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    It was done at the 90 degrees for demonstration. I hope no one here has to play this game in real life either, but if you have to, its nice to have the tools to do so.
    There are bunches of knife disarm techniques to be found in: "Black Belt Krav Maga" Levine and Hoover. But, many seem
    more suited to military situations and hostage situations than the street thug's robbery attempt.

    Correction, I meant to type "gun disarm" above, however the book also has knife and stick disarms.

    Thanks for the like G-man.
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    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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    VIP Member Array Snub44's Avatar
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    ...most folks never try this stuff...think it's for the kung fu wizards...let me encourage EVERYONE to expose themselves to at least one session of training disarming a gunman...

    ...I am undoubtedly the slowest human being I know with reactions...when they told us we were going to learn to take a cocked revolver out of a man's hand before he could shoot it, I laughed out loud...before the day was out, I was doing it...

    ...I hesitate to tell this but the cop who did it's dead, so he won't care...we played hard way back when...I'd been on about 6 years and he and I were out in the hall with about 4 others talking before roll call...I, being left-handed, had a plastic cone cup of coffee in my right hand and as we mouthed back and forth, he got a bit irritated...I finally pulled his cork and he hissed "why, you..."
    and drew his Llama 1911 .45, pretending to shoot me...everyone started to laugh and before I even knew I was going to, with my left hand I took his slide and racked it back, locked my thumb through the trigger guard, dropped his chambered round on the floor , then his mag...and held on tight...everyone ROARED as he stood there, tugging on his gun, telling me to "give me my gun back"...I told him sure, if he promised to be a big boy and not play with it in the house...

    ...I didn't even spill a drop of coffee...thirty minutes later I was still asking "How'd I do that?"

    ...if I can...you can...no matter who you are...I am an unconordivated klutz and not even joking about how slow I am...

    ...in a bad situation, let your will to survive drive your body to do things you normally can't do...these courses/trainings will put the mechanics into your brain...it will use them when needed...automatically...have faith enough to believe we don't use but a fraction of the mind power He gave us...

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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    There are bunches of knife disarm techniques to be found in: "Black Belt Krav Maga" Levine and Hoover. But, many seem
    more suited to military situations and hostage situations than the street thug's robbery attempt.

    Correction, I meant to type "gun disarm" above, however the book also has knife and stick disarms.

    Thanks for the like G-man.
    Hey no problem. The " war arts ", are just that, war, where the object is to kill the other person. It doesn't take into account the psychological mindset of thuggery, where there is a vast difference.

    Practicing traditional Chinese Kenpo for 22 years, I can tell you that the disarming techniques are not even introduced until the 2nd Brown belt level. And it can take years to get to that level.

    The reason is simple; it is a full commitment movement, no turning back.

    Now many would argue that when someone has a gun pointed at you, that this is as serious as it gets, and its time to act.
    Now, I would not argue that point, but would argue the type of action.

    I would be hesitant to recommend action learned from a video or garage taught techniques.

    On the field of battle, immediate action is a requirement, kill or be killed.
    On the street, an understanding of criminal behavior and the felony mindset may be a better tool.

    But, I suppose having a plan is half the battle, so make your choices wisely.
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    Ca'mon folks, it's not that complicated. It's a generic grab, turn and twist with some behind the scenes leg work. It's like every other self defense situation. Are you a lefty or a righty? Is your opponent/s lefties or a righties? Is the weapon high or low or vertical or horizontal or some poem in between? Do you make your move from the inside out or from the outside in? How did I arrive in this horrendous situation in the first place?.

    I'm never convinced to the point of comfort with any of these gun grabbing techniques - there is just too much that can go wrong. The gun grab can go wrong quickly for me or you or any bystanders given the inherent risk of discharge and it's not something you can test out in full contact mode - blah, as usual. If that cylinder turns while you have your hand covering it the fight could go south quick, especially if it's your strong hand.

    There is, however, no reason not to carry these techniques around in your repertoire if you are willing to accept the responsibility and the risk. Hey, wait a minute.
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    ...try or die, I'm gonna be tryin' every time...and I DON'T jump off'n no tall buildings...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Small circle stuff as shown in post 4 around 4:40 ish is extremely effective but somewhat technique sensitive. Its a hoot in the gym to
    make your opponent go up and down and wherever you want him to. He also shows attacking fingers; a thing of beauty when done well. Unlike the large muscle group moves of Krav (nothing wrong with Krav) this stuff is art.
    It is...and it's called Hapkido. Practice, practice, practice. It's addictive but quite painful. You have to be a sado-masochist to reach your 1st degree blackbelt.
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    Good thread!

    Two areas I think are overlooked too often are handgun retention and gun disarms. Based on my limited experience ( 1 1/2 year of Krav) they take a lot of training starting at a crawl pace (by the numbers), walk (picking up speed), run (FOF). I also have several drills to work on at home which helped me immensely prepare for KM classes. One of the biggest ones was quickly redirecting and controlling a dowel rod which I place at different heights, standing at different distances, and pointing at me in different locations. In addition I have a torso (long sleeved stuffed shirt with gloves). I can hang it on my heavy bag and work on not just the disarms but what to do with the firearm when I get it from the assailant and finishing the fight.

    In my mind, it's a big gamble to try to disarm, even if you are very well trained. But then again you are gambling not doing anything all.......

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    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    The disarms work best inside arms reach. Outside of that distance you are taking quite a chance. I make no differentiation on where I am or who has a gun on me, my reaction is going to be the same. If they are within reach I am going to hurt them, if they are not I am going to bust off the X and engage them. It is not idle internet banter, been there done that.

    The important thing is offline, redirect and trap. It is interesting in the video they show how holding the gun causes a malfunction. Any disarm should be so fast and brutal they do not get another shot anyway, done correctly you take the trigger finger with the gun.
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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    There are bunches of knife disarm techniques to be found in: "Black Belt Krav Maga" Levine and Hoover. But, many seem
    more suited to military situations and hostage situations than the street thug's robbery attempt.

    Correction, I meant to type "gun disarm" above, however the book also has knife and stick disarms.

    Thanks for the like G-man.
    While it is good for military applications, it also pertains to civilians. To say otherwise IMO is a little naive. Someone sticking a gun or a knife in your face is cause for immediate action. If its in arms length distance H2H can work, if not within that distance, like Bob said, you bust off the x and engage.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

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