Movement Inside of the Fight Continuum

Movement Inside of the Fight Continuum

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Sweatnbullets's Avatar
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    Movement Inside of the Fight Continuum

    Movement Inside of the Fight Continuum

    "The fight will be what the fight will be." There is a definite fight continuum and inside the fight continuum there is a number of other continuums. There is of course, 7677's sight continuum, there is a reaction continuum, and a movement continuum. There are even lesser continuums including grip, trigger, etc. but let's concentrate on the main three.

    React as you need to react, move as you need to move, and see what you need to see within the context of the specifics of the fight. This is very straight forward and simple, yet each of these are intertwined. Each works in conjunction with the other and each has an effect on the other. The dynamics of the fight will be dictated by your position in the reactinary curve, the proximity of the threat, and the urgency of the situation. How you deal with the specifics of the fight will depend on your mindset, experience, training and skill level.

    When it comes to training and skill level, I believe that we should strive to be as well rounded and versitile as possible. To understand the fight continuum and to cover as many bases as possible within that continuum. There needs to be a priority set on "the most likely situations." But training should not stop there. In regards to the movement continuum, I have broken the skillsets into four catagories.

    Stand and Deliver

    Controlled movement

    Dynamic movement

    And "get the heck out of dodge" movement

    Stand and deliver is the entry level skillset. This is where you nail down your fundamentals. You should have stand and deliver skills down cold to truly excel in the skillsets that follow. Many very good men have come home after very tough nights with stand and deliver skills.... a few of them right here on this forum. One should not discount this skillset when it is used within the correct context of the fight.

    Controlled movement is an intermediate skillset and would include the groucho (duck walk,) the side step (crab walk,) and "just walk." Controlled movement has it place also. When the urgency is not high and the proximity/distance requires more precision (sighted fire.)

    Dynamic movement is the "high priority" movement that I referred to earlier. This is where you will most likely find yourself. Dynamic movement excells when you are behind in the reactionary curve, the proximity is close. and the urgency is high. This movement can range from "faster than a walk" to a jog, to a stride, to a run, and finally to a sprint. This type of movement really works well within the reaction continuum and the sight continuum. The use of target focused skills takes this skillset well beyond what has been considered "possible" in the recent past. One handed skills are a "must" with dynamic movement.

    Get the heck out of Dodge movement is simply sprinting to cover without engaging until you are behind cover. This has it's place, especially in the military. It's used by a civilian CCWer is becoming less and less necessary due to the huge advancements in dynamic movement shooting over the past year. If cover is a couple of yards away.....by all means get to it! But do not die trying to get to something that is just too far away.

    One should be well rounded. Prioritize your training to the "most likely situation." Work the other areas of the fight continuum, so that if you find yourself in a specific circumstance you will be comfortable there. Stay within the safety level of your skill level, but strive to improve each time out. Find, explore, and push your limitations within the fight continuum.


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    Wow, a lot of thought and typing went into that! Great post. I was trying to find a fault somewhere in your logic, but I can't.

    I would like further emphasis the need to "crawl, walk, run" when ever learning a new skill or practicing an old one. It makes me cringe every time I see a student shooter doing move and shoot drills before they are proficient with basic marksmanship. This is especially true with LEO's and "experienced" CCWers.

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    Senior Member Array Sweatnbullets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Wow, a lot of thought and typing went into that! Great post. I was trying to find a fault somewhere in your logic, but I can't.

    I would like further emphasis the need to "crawl, walk, run" when ever learning a new skill or practicing an old one. It makes me cringe every time I see a student shooter doing move and shoot drills before they are proficient with basic marksmanship. This is especially true with LEO's and "experienced" CCWers.

    Thank you sir, that means a lot to me coming from you. If you would like to read more on the subject contact me and I could give you some links to some top notch threads over at Warrior Talk.

    I have a new saying, it goes like this.

    "Never accept the limitations set down by others, but never under estimate the value of the fundamentals.

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    "Never accept the limitations set down by others, but never under estimate the value of the fundamentals."
    I tried to rewrite that (for hell of it!) - but it is a totally good stand-alone phrase exactly as it is Like it!!

    You make an interesting and inherently logical breakdown - particularly useful for folks looking for a progression within their training and skills.

    One thing I have had in mind a lot since you or someone else gave a link - was Southnarc's ref to ''Task fixation'' - it has become something I regard as ever more important because it can put people into an unwitting white state - even something as simple as lighting a smoke etc.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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    Senior Member Array Sweatnbullets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P95Carry View Post
    I tried to rewrite that (for hell of it!) - but it is a totally good stand-alone phrase exactly as it is Like it!!

    You make an interesting and inherently logical breakdown - particularly useful for folks looking for a progression within their training and skills.

    One thing I have had in mind a lot since you or someone else gave a link - was Southnarc's ref to ''Task fixation'' - it has become something I regard as ever more important because it can put people into an unwitting white state - even something as simple as lighting a smoke etc.
    I am glad you like the phrase. I like it because it covers both ends of the spectrum and everything in between....solid fundamentals and establishing personal limitations.

    On the movement continuum, there has been some real break through stuff over the last year or so. Some of the very best in the business are working on it. There has been some confusion from the people trying to follow along without the benefit of the training, this break down helps alliviate that confusion. The open minded and well rounded approach has been warmly received by both the old school guys and the new school guys, because there is no "elimination" of any one technique. There is an integration that is based on logic, common sense, and situational dependency.

    For many, this will just be "food for thought" due to the fact that they may not be at this level yet. But I think it is important that people understand the progression of the skill level and how it fits in with the progression of the fight (the fight continuum.)

    Southnarcs "task fixation" is one of those things that light up that light bulb above your head. It is one of those logical, common sense things that make you go Hmmmmm? Once you see the term, you begin to see all of the times that you are task fixated.

    There is a real connection between "awareness" and your position in the reactionary curve. The more aware that you are, the more that you will be able to solve the problems with a lower skill level. For instance, if you are ahead in the reactionary curve due to awareness, stand and deliver skills may suffice. If you are equal in the reactionary curve, controlled movement may suffice. But if you are behind in the reactinary curve, dynamic movement may be the only way to survive th encounter.

    Task fixation does not have to be a long drawn out event. As you said it can be a short as lighting a cigarette. Yesterday I found myself task fixated for about three seconds setting a couple of cups of coffee in the cup holders of my truck. My hearing of footsteps snapped me back out of my fixation. But if it was a BG I would have been behind in the reationary curve. Three seconds of an every day task put me in a bad position.....now that is food for thought!
    Last edited by Sweatnbullets; November 23rd, 2006 at 02:02 PM.

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    Soon after the task fixation really registered in a big way - since having really ID'd it for what it is - reminds me, that not many days later I had been into a pharmacy to collect some pic's and was back at my bike ready to move on.

    As is often the case, I stoked and lit the old pipe before moseying on - but this time I ''worked blind'' - purely by touch as I scanned. It was funny tho as I was lighting up - and scanning - I got a wierd look from a passer by LOL! Guess it looked odd doing a 360º in the process!.

    Another simple example is stooping to tie a recalcitrant show lace - something we may do without much thought - but I can now see that as potentially a few seconds of zero awareness and vulnerability.

    Needless to say - these casual actions will 99% of the time be probably safe ''in white'' but if we do not make changes to render them less fixated and in yellow, just perhaps that 1% time could catch us out.

    Any seeming paranoia in such approaches is in fact self discipline so as to cover that 1% time when we might be caught out. IMO anyways, and I say that living in a pretty good area (compared to many).
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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    Great Thread

    It's important to add that some of us reside in states where we do have a legal first obligation (while armed) to retreat from a perceived deadly threat if it is possible to do so.
    So to some degree our "initial" or first movements and actions will be (at least in part) dictated and somewhat skewed to the idiosyncratic engagement rules of how we must initially react to a perceived "Deadly Threat" before we may act on it.
    So we are are forced to "kick in" late.
    So once we hit "Fight or Flight" ~ We must attempt Flight before Fight as our first action.
    Naturally, it seems always best to try to Exit a deadly situation rather than engage it so I'm not sure how that affects things in general.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

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    Senior Member Array Sweatnbullets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    It's important to add that some of us reside in states where we do have a legal first obligation (while armed) to retreat from a perceived deadly threat if it is possible to do so.
    So to some degree our "initial" or first movements and actions will be (at least in part) dictated and somewhat skewed to the idiosyncratic engagement rules of how we must initially react to a perceived "Deadly Threat" before we may act on it.
    So we are are forced to "kick in" late.
    So once we hit "Fight or Flight" ~ We must attempt Flight before Fight as our first action.
    Naturally, it seems always best to try to Exit a deadly situation rather than engage it so I'm not sure how that affects things in general.
    Yes, the legal obligation to flee can put you in a real disadvantage. Shoot/no shoot situations are hard enough without throwing that curve ball into the mix. I feel for those of you that have to worry so much about trying to fllee first to keep from being tossed into prison. While I would never suggest that anyone should do anything illegal, I would warn you about being so concerned with these types of laws that you end up losing an encounter and ending up dead......because of your fear of the legal system. These laws are so subjective and complicated that there needs to be a clear "line in the sand" drawn, so that you know when you have to flee and when you can fight. I use the acronym IDOL...."immediate defense of life" as that "line in the sand."

    In the FOF testing that we have done "Get the hell out of Dodge" movement was a certain loser for anything past a few yards. We have found that the best way to fllee is to fight your way to cover as you flee. The video that prompted this thread showed a number of aggressive, offensive, movement drills. We also cover purely defensive movement drills. These would be drills while moving dynamicaly rearward. Here is one sample of the drills that we shoot while retreating to the 5:00.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bplv-se2LAU

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    Member Array Dave James's Avatar
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    Very nice

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array Sweatnbullets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave James View Post
    Very nice
    Thanks guys, I appreciate the kind words.

    I believe that there should be continuity to ones movement. I feel that one should train to get hits through the entire movement spectrum. There is no doubt about the importance of "stand and deliver" skills. I have spent hundreds and hundreds of hours on this skill with tens of thousands of drawstrokes. If I chose this solution to the problem, that skill will be there.

    I also see a need for very controlled movement that facilitates a precision shot on the move. This could include skills such as "just walk", side stepping (crab walk,) or even the old groucho (duck) walk. All three of these techniques have there place (however small they might be) and should be something that you can do on demand, if that demand arises. I practice head shots at logical distances with this type of movement.

    I also see a need for dynamic movement, to be able to get hits with your toes pointing the direction that you are moving. This type of movement has your upper body working independent from your lower body, "like a turret of a tank." Toes point the direction you are headed, body turreted the direction that you are shooting. This type of movement brings in your bi-lateral skills. Shooting to the firing side can be done two handed to a certain point, then you need to go one handed. The possible speed of this movement can cover the full spectrum, from a walk, to a jog, to a stride, to a run, and finally to a sprint. This is where you find what you are physically capable of. This is where the limitations are pushed, and the standards are set.

    Feints, jukes, cut backs and directional changes are also part of the movement skills set. One should explore there ability to use these skills and the limitations that different terrain/footing give you.

    React as you need to react, move as you need to move, and see what you need to see to solve the problem that you are confronted with. If you train with these basic concepts, you will have covered the vast majority of the possible situations. In covering these situations, your subconscious mind will choose, with confidence, the appropriate solution.

    Training to move and shoot in every direction is the best way to go. The only thing that I refuse to teach is back peddeling. There are ways to engage while moving rearward without back peddling.

    I believe that getting off of the line of attack is very important. This accomplishes getting out of the kill zone as quickly as possible. Moving straight in or straight back simply does not get you off of the line of attack. But there are times when moving straight in is a very good idea. If you find yourself in a position where you can not avoid the situation, but you are in a dominant position (inside of the BG's OODA loop), due to awareness, distraction, deception, metsubishi, or ballistic effect moving forward aggressively and stopping the threat has it's place.

    Movement needs to have purpose. Getting to cover would be the most obvious purpose. But many times cover is just not a reality. In this case, movement to acquire the adversaries flanks is an outstanding tactic. Moving forward to the oblique's or using elliptical movement to try to get behind the adversary is as solid a tactic as there is.

    If your natural reaction (just reacting, with no conscious thought does happen when you are behind in the reactionary curve) is to move one direction, that does not mean that you need to keep moving that direction. Direction can be changed with elliptical movement or "cutback" type moves. The directional changes can come out of the visual input of the dynamics of the encounter. You need to be able to recognize the changes in your position in the OODA loop. Making adjustments to your movement due to this visual input is something that everyone should be aware of.

    Moving rearward to the oblique's while putting accurate hits on board is an outstanding skill to own. This can be accomplished quite easily with the correct training and tools. The LEO's that I have taught in my courses have considered these skills "life saving skills" for officers that have been caught behind the reactionary curve. In a typical traffic stop, the officer cover, radio, long gun......down right security is behind him. To be able to fight their way back to the patrol car, while delivering accurate hits, can be an excellent tool to own.

    Lateral movement is the best way to not get hit, but it is also the most difficult way to get hits. The dynamics of this displacement dictate this as fact. This is why the ability to make hits laterally, on a full run is one of the highest skill levels obtainable in the movement spectrum.

    The bottom line is that it is a very good idea to "train for the worst and hope for the best." You never know what the dynamics of the fight are going to be. It is the wise man that trains himself to be well rounded as possible in order to cover as many bases as he can. Training in just one response will make you a "flat sided" fighter. Flat sided fighters can not adapt to varying tactics, if you can not adapt, you will not overcome.

    I feel that the KISS concept has been taken too far. I believe that the KISS concept was developed for the lowest common denominator. This is for those that do not learn, do not train, and do not practice. Every top athlete that I have ever seen has a vast number of skills, techniques, and tactics ingrained at a subconscious level. They can access these ingrained responses easily....at top speed, with zero conscious thought. They can also transition from one, to another, to another seamlessly. This is what all students of the art, that are serious about their training, should be striving for.

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    KISS concept was developed for the lowest common denominator?

    Oh boy, those are fighting words!

    Really though, I agree with that with this particular subject. Keep it Simple for the Stupid. Hey, I kinda like that...

    Maybe this is a simpleton point, but a cqb fight, I like to get as much distance between me and the BG as quick as possible. Back peddling may give you distance, but doesn't get you where you need to be. I'm glad to hear that others are getting away from this too. I like lateral movement best, almost moving in a semicircular pattern if I can. It tends to confuse and throw off the BG most, and all but the those most experianced in pistol craft will not be able to hit me.
    This gives you your distance and also should qualify as your attempt to retreat.
    Of course this won't work in all situations, just another tool.

    And thanks for starting this thread, its a welcome relief to all the "what gun should I buy" stuff.

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    Senior Member Array Sweatnbullets's Avatar
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    Really though, I agree with that with this particular subject. Keep it Simple for the Stupid. Hey, I kinda like that...
    Keep it as simple as it needs to be.

    There are very few simple answers to complex problems.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Array Sweatnbullets's Avatar
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    The Value of One Handed Skills During Dynamic movement

    If you can not hit the targeted area, just about as well with one hand as you can with two, then two handed shooting may be your only option during dynamic movement. But this limitation may cause limitatons inside of your dynamic movement skillset

    If you have good one handed skills, these skills really shine inside the "dynamic" portion of the movement continuum. The support side arm and hand can be used to help facilitate the following.

    The support side arm can be used to help facilitate the explosive move off of the X (pumping of the arm), to increase speed (pumping of the arm), for balance, to improve your ability to make directional changes, to fend off, to help negotiate through, along, or around, and most importantly as a counter balance and stabalizing force.

    On the counter balance and stabalizing force, this is the same principle as the way a Cheetah or Cougar uses it's tail when it is moving dyanamically. The support side arm is used in a natural manner to counter balance the extended handgun. It also stabalizes the handgun from the rolling of the shoulders and the slight twisting of the body that you get while you are running. It also mitigates the bobbing that comes from the impact of the feet on the ground. The use of the support side arm in this manner helps facilitate a more "consistant index" during your dynamic movement by "floating" the handgun. At logical distances this consistant index is so reliable that you can work the trigger as fast as you can with no need to verify that you are indexed on target in between your shots (great when you are behind in the reactionary curve and are fighting to take back the initiative.)

    Anytime that you have two hands on the gun, while you are moving dynamically, the body mechanics of this will make the handgun bounce more and move side to side more....like a big ***** infinity symbol. With one hand, the gun can "float" better (less negative shock input from two seperate sides of the body). You will be able to index on to the targeted area much more reliably. The added benifit of the support side arm working as counter balance and stabalizer is another huge asset.

    To test this, try this. From seven yards, with two hands, bring the handgun up to the line of sight, and focus hard on the front sight. Now run towards target and note the amount of movement across the targeted area (infinity pattern). Now try it with one hand with the support side arm held at the chest, note the movement across the targeted area. Now use it one handed with the support side arm used to facilitate smoothing out the firing side arm. This will be a natural swinging motion, but changes slightly due to the direction that you are moving. How to swing the arm is up to you, but remember this quote from Enos, "just pay attention and your body will figure it out."

    You will see that your handgun will have significantly less movement across the targeted area. So much so, that you are constantly indexed on to the targeted area at logical distances. This constant index moves you past the point where you need constant alignment verification. You can now work the trigger as fast as you can and you will make the hits.

    All of this is dependent on solid one handed fundamentals. If you are not accurate one handed while static, then you can not judge the technique of which I speak while moving dynamically.

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