Looking for tips on trigger pull.
This is a discussion on Looking for tips on trigger pull. within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hello all,
Its been awhile since I've posted here and I'll take this opportunity to give everyone an update as well as ask for advice; ...
Post By Navman
Post By TSiWRX
July 25th, 2013 02:50 AM
Looking for tips on trigger pull.
Its been awhile since I've posted here and I'll take this opportunity to give everyone an update as well as ask for advice; since the last time I've chatted with any of you I have added a Springfield XD 40 Sub-Compact to my carry rotation. It took me a good while to work it into the rotation as I generally try to put several hundred rounds through a firearm before I trust it. The problem with my relationship with this particular weapon does not lie in the firearm but in my shooting ability. Little back story: I shoot my SR40 with acceptable to me accuracy, and perform acceptably with it while shooting in various positions, as well as under stress drills and malfunction drills. I am confident with the weapon and comfortable with my ability with it. Now, I actually like the trigger better on the XD (disclaimer: This is personal opinion and I am in no way comparing the two firearms as they are totally different tools for totally different situations and I am by no means trying to infer that one is superior to the other in ANY way this is about me not the weapons they are both fine firearms) however I cannot for the life of me master the trigger pull on the little XD, I almost always pull down and left with it. Now heres the kicker, when I started shooting as a kid I learned a bad habit and learned to shoot in what I call a "Bubba Weaver" stance, some sort of redneck hybrid garbage. When I fire the XD in this stance I am accurate with it shooting respectable groups for a civilian pseudo-trained CCW kinda guy; since November I've been teaching this "Bubba Weaver" stance out of me and moving to (read: attempting to move to) a more text book style thumb forward isosceles stance, when shooting the little XD from this stance I consistently hit down and left, I can shoot the thing right hand only: fairly accurate, left hand only: fairly accurate, on my back: fairly accurate, basically every position other than relaxed, slow, deliberate isosceles stance: fairly accurate. Admittedly I may simply need more time on the range with it;however I've spent a good amount of time with it for me anyway. What am I missing? Why can I shoot the thing under stress and in less than ideal stances just fine and then when I try to shoot like I'm in an indoor range controlling breathing and everything else I suck.....
July 25th, 2013 03:07 AM
Try maby or maby not.. Let some one else load your gun. Now you don't know if there is a round chambered or not. When it just goes click it may say it all.? Not sure about " bubba '' Good luck
July 25th, 2013 03:34 AM
yeah, the down and left would make sense with this
Originally Posted by sealteam20001
July 25th, 2013 07:53 AM
July 25th, 2013 08:34 AM
Sounds like you need to get back to fundamentals. If you own snap caps run the ball and dummy drill. When working on fundamanetals (sight alignment and trigger press) slowly press the trigger like an eye dropper and pressing it without disrupting your sight alignment. As you get better slowly increase your speed.
I love to work out to 25-40 yards and sometime longer when working on fundamentals. If your fundamentals are poor it will really show out at longer distances.
July 25th, 2013 10:33 AM
I'm working on my bad habit of "squeezing the grip when pulling the trigger" that puts me at 8 pm
bought one of the lasers that go in the chamber and "fires" a beam showing me where I would have hit had it been a real round.
10 minutes a day of dry firing with it has really helped and it doesn't make holes in my walls
July 25th, 2013 10:47 AM
I am going to predict that you are right handed and you are over gripping your gun. Relax your grip a little and concentrate on a smooth, straight back trigger pull.
People death-grip their guns because they are concerned about recoil. Recoil is managed with the wrist and the arm, not the fingers. Therefore, the arm and wrist need to be locked out but the fingers can be more relaxed. This will help eliminate "milking" the gun during trigger press.
"Mind own business"
"Always cut cards"
July 25th, 2013 10:50 AM
It seems odd that you would be anticipating recoil in one stance, and not in any others. I wonder if maybe you're used to stabilizing the shooting hand with your off hand in a two-handed grip, and your weaver-esque stance provides more support from this hand. Perhaps you tend to twist inwards with both hands pushing against each other, and you're accustomed to apply less pressure from your off hand, due to the extra support in weaver.
Personally I don't care much for isosceles, so I wouldn't worry about it myself.
"Yet this government never of itself furthered any enterprise, but by the alacrity with which it got out of the way... The character inherent in the American people has done all that has been accomplished; and it would have done somewhat more, if the government had not sometimes got in its way."
July 25th, 2013 11:44 AM
Get a laser training device and a laser trainer. That way you can have all the trigger time you need to get it down right.
July 25th, 2013 03:32 PM
I only discovered isosceles after I was working some drills and I almost always instinctively went to this type of "stance" when stepping back and firing even though I had always shot differently, my wife is in agreement with the gentleman above that suggested I was death-gripping the little thing, she showed me a target I shot with only flush magazines, and then another with extended mags and guess what: extended mag target was just fine, flush pulled down and left; I'm beginning to think sub-consciously I am over gripping the firearm when the flush mag is in, perhaps because of a perceived lack of control etc who knows, but I'm going to work with this hypothesis, I'll keep you all informed, and put up some pictures of targets
Originally Posted by maxwell97
July 26th, 2013 03:52 PM
Originally Posted by AOK
Overall, my belief is that while "stance" may be affecting things, you've actually got to work more on trigger control. It sounds like you're missing shots because you're doing something on the trigger of the XD that you're not having trouble with on the SR, and if that's the case, no matter what you do with stance, it's going to be trigger that matters.
In addition, I'd encourage you, HemiCoupl, to start immediately to work on your dry-fire practice.
The traditional way is to use a spent 9x19 case, balancing it on top of the front sight post. It's easier to have a training-partner balance the case on the sight for you after you've already come to full presentation, but if you've got good focus, you can do this, yourself, with the gun held naturally at even waist level, even with your finger off the trigger and indexed high. The goal is to attempt a full trigger press, dropping the hammer/striker and to hold the trigger back at the farthest of its rearward travel (achieving "follow through"), without having the case fall off the post.
If that's too hard, you can first start by balancing a dime there, but yes, even with the spent case, this is possible even on factory Glock front sights and thin 0.100 fiber-optic front posts like those by Dawson Precision. Stick with it!
If it's still too hard, balance the spent case on the slide, just behind the front sight.
Still too hard? Substitute the dime.
You're right, HemiCoupl, it's not the gun, it's you - but take heart in that the SR40 and the XD have very different triggers, so you've got quite a bit of self-adjustment to do.
The stock XD's trigger is also far from being one of the better of the polymer pistols out there. But then again, it's also not totally un-masterable. You'll get it eventually!
I'd also recommend that you log in to YouTube and find the Haley Strategic Channel, and look up the Haley/Avery "TriggerStripe Drill" two-part video, and do those live-fire exercises once you've gotten better at dry-fire.
I do not agree.
Originally Posted by maxwell97
I think he's paying more attention to the fundamentals when he *THINKS* that he should be shooting worse: and conversely is thus shooting better. Instead, when he's more comfortable with the shot, his mind lets go just enough that the fundamentals are impacted, causing him to start dropping shots.
Now, the fact that HemiCoupl is having difficulties while using the "flush" magazine while being fine with the extended magazine somewhat goes against this (as his mind should be more on the alert when he's having to fire the gun in a supposedly more difficult manner - i.e. not having a full grip), but that could simply point to a deficiency in grip, one which is magnified when that critical base of the grip goes away with the truncated magazine/frame of the (Sub)Compacts.
August 2nd, 2013 12:09 AM
I own a SIG 2022 9mm. DA/SA. My problem at the range was firing low left, being right handed it didn't make much sense but found out I had too much finger on the trigger. Trying to correct it was a challenge. I read an article about trigger control. I started practicing a dry drill that helped correct my problem. Here is how it goes:
You will need a quarter or a coin that will sit on top of your slide with out falling off.
place the coin on your slide and practice front sight focus on a target. Go through a dry fire routine of rapid fire at your target focusing on keeping your target on site. You will learn to control your trigger, not pulling your trigger but squeezing your trigger. You will know when you have it for the obvious reason that you will keep the coin on top of your slide.
I practice my DA fire more than my SA fire because it is harder to control.
Hope this helps.
August 26th, 2013 12:54 AM
what has been said here is golden...
Shooting a new gun has it’s own learning curve, and shooting a new smaller gun is more difficult than merely shooting a different ‘new’ handgun. Lots more. Every movement is exaggerated downrange when shooting short barrels.
I’ve had to relearn nearly everything I knew from a long time ago as I recently reentered the shooting world with a few new sidearms of varying size, and calibers. Two 45s, one large, one midsized, and one 40SW compact. Each one has it’s own requirements though all share some basic operational practices. Each one’s trigger and grip are completely different from the rest.
I found myself consistently pulling off and up to the left between 10P and midnight with my large duty pistol recently when shooting with my strong hand alone. Less so with two hands, but still up and left.
Shooting weak side one hand only all was well enough as groups landed more centered on the bull. Hmmmm. Maybe it’s a left handed gun?
No. it’s not. It’s fully ambidexterous. My left hand just had not learned the bad habits my right hand had… and a less pronounced back strap was needed. Another point of adjustment was to alter my trigger finger positioning and pull. In short I had to unlearn the bad habits I acquired using my strong hand only while shooting.
Loosening the grip was a part of it too when it came to handling and firing the smaller piece I recently purchased, an SR 40c. it’s recoil is indeed well, ‘frisky and using both hands is another issue altogether. Still in all, I’m shooting better with my off hand, or left hand than I do using my natural strong side hand… and honestly it doesn’t bug me much. It just means I have to adjust and relearn better grip and trigger habits ONLY on one side… again.
Another thing I heard from a very advanced shooter is how to spread the grip across both hands.. the support hand does 60% of the job of keeping the pistol in place, and the strong hand provides the balance of about 40% while operating the sidearm. Playing with this proportioning of grip has helped. A death grip which induces jitter isn’t the best policy. In me it tends to heighten the anxiety and intensifies my reaction to recoil.
I force myself to relax all over and in the grip as well… somewhat more now.
All the input I’ve read here is definitely beneficial. Try everything. Keep what works and throw out what doesn’t. but do try to be as comfortable as is possible. After all it’s only paper staring back at you down range, right?
August 26th, 2013 01:18 AM
Don't tighten your grip with your shooting hand as you press the trigger
Don't apply rearward pressure with your support hand as you press the trigger
Don't slap the trigger
"If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
William T. Sherman
August 26th, 2013 01:30 AM
If I'm low left I know I'm jerking on the trigger. Just have to relax and smooth it out. Avoid the temptatation to aim high right
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