Competition VS "Tactical" Shooting & The Draw Stroke

This is a discussion on Competition VS "Tactical" Shooting & The Draw Stroke within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hello to All, Made this video a few months ago. Thanks in advance for watching. Best, PhoenixTS...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 19
Like Tree14Likes

Thread: Competition VS "Tactical" Shooting & The Draw Stroke

  1. #1
    Member Array PhoenixTS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    305

    Competition VS "Tactical" Shooting & The Draw Stroke

    Hello to All,

    Made this video a few months ago.



    Thanks in advance for watching.

    Best,

    PhoenixTS
    Last edited by PhoenixTS; August 18th, 2013 at 11:17 PM.
    357and40 and Kadelic like this.

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    VIP Member Array Secret Spuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    2,611
    Very tactical.. very very tactical....

  4. #3
    Member Array PhoenixTS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    305
    The intent is to have a system that addresses count 2 of the draw (and is in ones muscle memory) when the adversary is an arm's length away...maybe defensive is a better word.

    Thanks much for watching and commenting!

    Quote Originally Posted by Secret Spuk View Post
    Very tactical.. very very tactical....

  5. #4
    VIP Member Array 40Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Where the deer and the antelope roam
    Posts
    2,778
    Nice video. I personally dislike the "school" draws that have counts or moves. My draw is one I was taught as a young copper over 30 years ago. The off hand stays loose near the waist, I do not have anything specific that it does, it may be holding a flashlight or a clip board, it may also be used to defect a charging attacker. For that reason I dislike the ingrained action of pressing it to my belly.

    My draw is similar except I just clear leather before rotating the gun into a firing position, from there I can fire or punch out to a better firing grip.

    INHO, there are very, very few times when a gun should be fired from retention. If the BG is that close you will rarely have the time to draw and are better served to use H2H to create distance and/or get to cover.

    I do shoot IDPA, however, the tactics and techniques I use are those learned as an LEO, so I do not necessarily get good scores.
    Bill MO, OD* and Secret Spuk like this.
    My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon. Go big or stay on the porch.

  6. #5
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    1,394
    I do not like the one way of doing things in all situations. I see the fight being what the fight is, not all fights are the same therefore you can not fight them the same. I see this as to way you need to train and practice for different situations. If you do and have any natural ability at all your body will know and do what it needs to do to handle the situation.

    If one does not train and practice for natural ability reflects then maybe the one type of draw stroke only is best but I train to draw to all positions on the clock not just that which is in front of me. You will not be facing the threat at all times so learn to go to the fight from where you stand.

    If you are so close to the fight that you need retention you most likely don't have time to make the draw unless you are already in the fight are are drawing to shoot the BG off you during the fight. Close quarters, I see going to H2H or knife being the best of tool choice. Even using retention there is just to much chance of the BG jamming the draw and with that come the rise of his taking the gun away and using it on you. If you are close and need the gun, make room then go to the gun and shoot. That move most likely means you go hands on to make the room to draw.

    In your shooting of the target at the last of the video I would not draw without making contact with hands first. No matter how fast I am on the draw. Just me and mine everyone is free to do as they wish.
    40Bob likes this.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

  7. #6
    Ex Member Array Harryball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Lansing Mi
    Posts
    6,960
    Nice video, I prefer to use this draw. Counting to me seems like a waste...JMO

    OD*, Phaedrus and 40Bob like this.

  8. #7
    Member Array PhoenixTS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    305
    Thanks for your comment.

    Quote Originally Posted by 40Bob View Post
    Nice video. I personally dislike the "school" draws that have counts or moves. My draw is one I was taught as a young copper over 30 years ago. The off hand stays loose near the waist, I do not have anything specific that it does, it may be holding a flashlight or a clip board, it may also be used to defect a charging attacker. For that reason I dislike the ingrained action of pressing it to my belly.

    My draw is similar except I just clear leather before rotating the gun into a firing position, from there I can fire or punch out to a better firing grip.

    INHO, there are very, very few times when a gun should be fired from retention. If the BG is that close you will rarely have the time to draw and are better served to use H2H to create distance and/or get to cover.

    I do shoot IDPA, however, the tactics and techniques I use are those learned as an LEO, so I do not necessarily get good scores.

  9. #8
    Member Array PhoenixTS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    305
    Whatever works for you is the best way to go for you. Thanks for your comment!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill MO View Post
    I do not like the one way of doing things in all situations. I see the fight being what the fight is, not all fights are the same therefore you can not fight them the same. I see this as to way you need to train and practice for different situations. If you do and have any natural ability at all your body will know and do what it needs to do to handle the situation.

    If one does not train and practice for natural ability reflects then maybe the one type of draw stroke only is best but I train to draw to all positions on the clock not just that which is in front of me. You will not be facing the threat at all times so learn to go to the fight from where you stand.

    If you are so close to the fight that you need retention you most likely don't have time to make the draw unless you are already in the fight are are drawing to shoot the BG off you during the fight. Close quarters, I see going to H2H or knife being the best of tool choice. Even using retention there is just to much chance of the BG jamming the draw and with that come the rise of his taking the gun away and using it on you. If you are close and need the gun, make room then go to the gun and shoot. That move most likely means you go hands on to make the room to draw.

    In your shooting of the target at the last of the video I would not draw without making contact with hands first. No matter how fast I am on the draw. Just me and mine everyone is free to do as they wish.
    OD* likes this.

  10. #9
    Member Array PhoenixTS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    305
    The count system is to teach novice shooters and to breakdown the draw stroke into its components. The draw in the video you posted is fine...you can be just as fast if not faster if you bring the handgun to count 2.

    The student in your video was over exaggerating the counts which for some reason is in vogue these days. The draw has to be fluid without unnecessary pauses and bringing the handgun to center line in a robotic fashion. I don't like bowling and have come to a point where I can pick up my flash sight picture because I bring the gun to count 2 and present straight to the target. I also like to have count 2 in my muscle memory so it works for me.

    Find what works for you and evolve. Thanks much for your comment!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    Nice video, I prefer to use this draw. Counting to me seems like a waste...JMO


  11. #10
    Ex Member Array Harryball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Lansing Mi
    Posts
    6,960
    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixTS View Post
    The count system is to teach novice shooters and to breakdown the draw stroke into its components. The draw in the video you posted is fine...you can be just as fast if not faster if you bring the handgun to count 2.

    The student in your video was over exaggerating the counts which for some reason is in vogue these days. The draw has to be fluid without unnecessary pauses and bringing the handgun to center line in a robotic fashion. I don't like bowling and have come to a point where I can pick up my flash sight picture because I bring the gun to count 2 and present straight to the target. I also like to have count 2 in my muscle memory so it works for me.

    Find what works for you and evolve. Thanks much for your comment!!!
    I get what you are saying, we were taught to teach students the same method. Its fine for the first day, after that we stress fluid movements for the draw, to many times like you said, people get focused on the count. As for bowling, Avery is not bowling, in his terms he is doing what the body does naturally using economy of motion. It is a bit different than the tacticool methods that a lot of instructors are preaching now a days....
    Bill MO likes this.

  12. #11
    Member Array PhoenixTS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    305
    Here's another video demonstrating that you can be just as fast without going straight to the target from your holster:



    I used to be able to do this in the .6 range before my right elbow surgery and slowing of reaction time due to age. Will get there again!

  13. #12
    Ex Member Array Harryball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Lansing Mi
    Posts
    6,960
    Nice shooting. Seems fast enough for the application...

  14. #13
    VIP Member Array xXxplosive's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,685
    Very nice video......IMO, Paul Gomez describes it best.

  15. #14
    Member Array PhoenixTS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    305
    I hear you. Whatever works for each shooter so long as it is performed safely and properly within the parameters of that particular action is fine. Thanks again for your great comments.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    I get what you are saying, we were taught to teach students the same method. Its fine for the first day, after that we stress fluid movements for the draw, to many times like you said, people get focused on the count. As for bowling, Avery is not bowling, in his terms he is doing what the body does naturally using economy of motion. It is a bit different than the tacticool methods that a lot of instructors are preaching now a days....
    Last edited by PhoenixTS; August 19th, 2013 at 04:22 PM.
    40Bob likes this.

  16. #15
    VIP Member Array Secret Spuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    2,611
    Quote Originally Posted by 40Bob View Post
    Nice video. I personally dislike the "school" draws that have counts or moves. My draw is one I was taught as a young copper over 30 years ago. The off hand stays loose near the waist, I do not have anything specific that it does, it may be holding a flashlight or a clip board, it may also be used to defect a charging attacker. For that reason I dislike the ingrained action of pressing it to my belly.

    My draw is similar except I just clear leather before rotating the gun into a firing position, from there I can fire or punch out to a better firing grip.

    INHO, there are very, very few times when a gun should be fired from retention. If the BG is that close you will rarely have the time to draw and are better served to use H2H to create distance and/or get to cover.

    I do shoot IDPA, however, the tactics and techniques I use are those learned as an LEO, so I do not necessarily get good scores.
    I have to second your opinion. IDPA scores have little or nothing at all to do with surviving a gunfight. What works in the street wont earn good scores playing at it.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

draw stroke gun

,

idpa draw stroke video

,

tactical draw a gun

Click on a term to search for related topics.