If three quick shots to COM don't get results, then what?

This is a discussion on If three quick shots to COM don't get results, then what? within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; So you find yourself having to draw and fire your sd firearm against one perp. You've drawn and fired 4 rounds in the first 1.2 ...

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Thread: If three quick shots to COM don't get results, then what?

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    If three quick shots to COM don't get results, then what?

    So you find yourself having to draw and fire your sd firearm against one perp. You've drawn and fired 4 rounds in the first 1.2 seconds from concealed scoring 4 COM shots. The perp is not responding to those hits, is still standing and a viable threat,

    what would you do?
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    As many more as needed right between the running lights until the threat is stopped.
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    When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
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    run?

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    I would congratulate myself for getting four well-placed rounds off from concealment in 1.2 seconds.
    "Who are the ones that we kept in charge? Killers, thieves, and lawyers"

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    Keep shooting until threat stop. If you anit shooting you should be moving if you aint moving you should be reloading.
    No 4 to the chest one to the head, won't work you will miss aim center mass

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    4 shots to the chest and he keeps coming? Than obviously he's a zombie and try for a headshot, but beware there's always more than one zombie in the area and beat feet to the nearest safe house.
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    One perp? Empty the mag COM and go hands on if necessary. Running my butt off would also be an option I'd keep open.
    "Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God." - Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    So you find yourself having to draw and fire your sd firearm against one perp. You've drawn and fired 4 rounds in the first 1.2 seconds from concealed scoring 4 COM shots. The perp is not responding to those hits, is still standing and a viable threat,

    what would you do?
    Aim for the pelvis. This is the mechanical center of the ability to walk. If you shatter the pelvis with one good shot, no matter how fast they are running at you, they won't make it two more steps. This is also a heavy blood flow regios with arteries near the skin surface, making it a probable fatal wound, and... body armor generally does NOT protect this region. Lastly, this region is not as quick to bob and weave around and move quickly like the head, so it's a much easier shot to make under duress.
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    Run away screaming if possible. Otherwise, remind myself to carry a 10mm more often. Two .45 ACP to the perp's pelvic area and two to the head. Start looking for the Calvary. Reload and empty that magazine to various areas including neck, legs, arms, and feet. Get out BUG and empty it. Reload the BUG and empty that magazine. Bend over and kiss ass goodbye if the perp is still a threat and the Calvary hasn't arrived. Get out my knife for last ditch defense.
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    Go to your trunk....retrieve rocket launcher....proceed to eliminate threat.
    I don't always carry two concealed S&W 500's.........JUST KIDDING!

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    Member Array chandler4228's Avatar
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    As others have said, I've always practiced COM shots and then pelvic shots for follow ups should they be necessary. You have a much higher probability of hits that will incapacitate.
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    Aim for other critical targets as others have said:
    1) Face (not "head". You want the softest part, the face)
    2) Pelvis/Groin (main arteries and veins here as well as walking mechanics)

    Some of the better training targets have these zones marked and the skeletal/muscular/circulatory systems drawn in to show WHY its a viable target.
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    There seem to be a lot of people that still believe that everyone falls down after being shot. Or that they quit what they were doing, and run away. Heck, I used to think that, too.

    HOWEVER, in lots of cases, it doesnt happen that way. There was a link to a very good FBI (I think) study on this subject. A determined attacker, unless hit in places that stops him cold, (or perhaps like breaking his pelvis, like one person just posted), is apt NOT to go down, but keep fighting.

    On the other hand, if someone were an innocent bystander, or NOT a determined attacker, (I think the FBI described them as looking for an excuse to disengage), one rather NON SERIOUS shot might put them down.

    It all came down to mindset. It is AMAZING to watch videos of BGs shotup by police, and them still fighting. I mean shot up beyond anything many ever dreamed of having to deal with. Those videos, along with that FBI report, sure changed my thinking on it all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    I would congratulate myself for getting four well-placed rounds off from concealment in 1.2 seconds.
    I was thinking the same thing. I'd be happy with two well-placed rounds in that timeframe from concealment and under intense stress.


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    All good answers according to LE training. Realistic scenario, too. Someone jacked-up on coke/crank/meth/adrenaline may not readily react to serious injuries.
    LE policy is to "Shoot until threat is Stopped".
    The two components to stopping an attacker are: 1.) Pain 2.) Mechanical damage (can't breath, see, move, etc.)

    In the LE academy, we had to study a case where a lone perp killed 2 FBI agents with a .32 cal revolver, was hit by 32 rounds of 9mm by LE (many in vital areas) and continued to fight the officers. He was finally stopped by a 33rd round (12 ga slug to his liver IIRC). I think it was called the "Indiana Incident" or something.
    There have been MANY similar cases since then, so there is good precedent for a seemingly inordinate number of rounds being necessary to "STOP" an attacker.... which could be necessary for a non-LEO if cornered or trapped.

    This illustrates good reason to ensure your carry caliber is loaded for maximum ft-lbs of energy. I have seen 9mm loaded to 510 ft-lbs of POI energy at 20 feet.
    With the proper bullet type and placement, that amount of energy should transfer and cause the Pain &/or Mechanical Damage to Stop the attacker.

    This is the reason all my sidearms are +P rated. Longer barrels will also increase energy at POI. But most all of us will compromise to various degrees for different reasons.
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