The Scoop Draw

This is a discussion on The Scoop Draw within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Last weekend's class of students learned to the scoop draw from concealed, and then used that draw stroke for the full weekend. Over time, it's ...

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Thread: The Scoop Draw

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    The Scoop Draw

    Last weekend's class of students learned to the scoop draw from concealed, and then used that draw stroke for the full weekend.

    Over time, it's been mentioned on several forums [ when the scoop draw has been mentioned ] that one could lose the weapon on the draw stroke if they didn't get a full purchase on the firearm before drawing it from the holster, that it was a dangerous skill for that reason.

    We had 19 students shooting all weekend using nothing but the scoop draw and not one person new to the skill, nor some who've had me show them this skill dropped or threw the firearm upon drawing with considerable speed in a few thousand draw stokes between the 19 shooters who fired anywhere from 1200-1800 rds in two days in our course of fire learning 8-10 threat focused shooting skills from 3-30 feet.

    The scoop draw gives one a faster presentation to first shot than other methods taught in the majority of courses of fire across the US. Students decreased their times considerably over the weekend as they continued to use this scoop draw stroke.

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    What is a scoop draw?
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    Its difficult to do with AIWB.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    What is a scoop draw?
    He explains it here...

    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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    Now, it is really unclear to me. How does one perform this draw from concealment?
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
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    Is it just me or should the 'camera man' have had the picture including the hand and holster for more of the lesson?
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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Now, it is really unclear to me. How does one perform this draw from concealment?
    Grab garb and scoop, just do not forget the french Onion dip....
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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    Folks really need to practice consistency when getting the initial grip on the firearm.
    Lots & lots of repetitions can be your friend.
    You need to have that consistent good/proper grip when you draw. Practice doing that every single time.
    On the plus side the human hand is an amazing machine and can accomplish that in tiny fractions of a second.
    If you carry covered up then practice really needs to be done from concealment.
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    I'm arguably a fairly bright guy, but am still unable to see how this technique is performed with a cover garment between the gun and the draw.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

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    AOK
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    My main concern isn't while practicing on a square range or during a competition and the gun goes flying from my hand. My concern would be in a physical confrontation and while trying to draw the gun, it jars loose from some form impact or impedement durng the draw. I want to have the best possible grip I can before it starts to leave my holster and I bring the gun into the fight. For me that means to drive my hand as deap and high into the gun as possible before my fingers even begin to wrap around the grip.

    If I was heavy into competitive firearms, sure it seems like it may be very valid technique (I could be wrong since I have zero background in competition). However, for some like me whose focus is purely fighting to protect my loved ones and I, it raises a MAJOR red flag. YMMV. Yes, I would love to shave time of my draw stroke and first shot, but not at the expense of gambling on my grip during the fight.

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    Here's the draw stroke from concealed under a T shirt. One does not take the time to place the web of the hand down onto the back strap of the pistol, gets a purchase with the 3-4 fingers on the firearm and lets those lift the gun up and out of the holster.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AOK View Post
    My main concern isn't while practicing on a square range or during a competition and the gun goes flying from my hand. My concern would be in a physical confrontation and while trying to draw the gun, it jars loose from some form impact or impedement durng the draw. I want to have the best possible grip I can before it starts to leave my holster and I bring the gun into the fight. For me that means to drive my hand as deap and high into the gun as possible before my fingers even begin to wrap around the grip.

    If I was heavy into competitive firearms, sure it seems like it may be very valid technique (I could be wrong since I have zero background in competition). However, for some like me whose focus is purely fighting to protect my loved ones and I, it raises a MAJOR red flag. YMMV. Yes, I would love to shave time of my draw stroke and first shot, but not at the expense of gambling on my grip during the fight.
    The scoop draw was used by the likes of Bill Jordan, Jelly Bryce, Col. Askins. Real world gunfighters who used their speed of presentation to stay above ground even after numerous exchanges with BG's. It was born in the world of SD, not competition. It was practiced for hours upon hours by people like the above until their draw stroke was about .40 seconds to first shot open carried. I can't get to .40, best I've done is .43, but few get to .60 to first shot even with a boat load of practice so the scoop draw is reducing the times using economy of motion.

    Bryce, Jordan and Askins never lost their firearm during the draw, and as mentioned, hundreds of novice students to the skill have drawn and fired from their holsters both concealed and open carried in the course of fire since 2005, not one has lost their firearm, while attaining speeds of under 1 second to first shot from open carry.
    The mind is the limiting factor

    Quick Kill Rifle and Pistol Instructor

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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    Here's the draw stroke from concealed under a T shirt. One does not take the time to place the web of the hand down onto the back strap of the pistol, gets a purchase with the 3-4 fingers on the firearm and lets those lift the gun up and out of the holster.
    Thanks, the pics clear it up for me. There are only slight differences between this and the draw from concealment I use.
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    AOK
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post

    Bryce, Jordan and Askins never lost their firearm during the draw, and as mentioned, hundreds of novice students to the skill have drawn and fired from their holsters both concealed and open carried in the course of fire since 2005, not one has lost their firearm, while attaining speeds of under 1 second to first shot from open carry.
    How much have your classes tested this draw stroke in a well ran FOF classes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AOK View Post
    How much have your classes tested this draw stroke in a well ran FOF classes?
    We've had people use it in Fof training, I use in exclusively in training and practice as I have no need to slow the draw unless I'm just plinking.

    Probably a few hundred in FoF have utilized it, none throwing guns yet. But I have had an leo using his trained draw from the academy throw the airsoft trying to beat the scoop draw of others. As I mentioned, at the "go" on severeal threat focused skills, scoop draw strokes are in the thousands by hundreds of students over the last 8 years. Even as novice to the skill as most are, we've not seen a hint of a problem with losing the firearm.
    The mind is the limiting factor

    Quick Kill Rifle and Pistol Instructor

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