Threat Focused Pistol AAR's from last weekend.

Threat Focused Pistol AAR's from last weekend.

This is a discussion on Threat Focused Pistol AAR's from last weekend. within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Some AAR's from last weekend in Fla. AAR: Webster I figured I'd write up a detailed AAR from my perspective (and with future students in ...

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    Threat Focused Pistol AAR's from last weekend.

    Some AAR's from last weekend in Fla.

    AAR: Webster

    I figured I'd write up a detailed AAR from my perspective (and with future students in mind trying to decide if the class is "worth it"):

    LOCATION/WEATHER: Class was held Nov 1st (Saturday) and (Nov 2nd (Sunday) at the Volusia County Gun and Hunt Club near Daytona Beach, FL. The range itself is large with many different shooting bays and options for running all sorts of different guns and drills. If I lived an hour closer, I'd be a member. Our particular bay was in the back of the range property, with no others in sight. This allowed us to focus on the skills being taught, instead of being distracted by what was going on in the bays around/behind us.

    The weather was dicey on Saturday with lots of rain. The ground quickly became muddy, guns were wet, and clothes were soaked. It made the day a bit harder, and slowed down our schedule as we had to take two unscheduled breaks to dodge the rain. However, as we kept reminding each other, it's best to train in the worst possible conditions. Even when I am soaked to the bone and my gun is dripping wet, I now have the confidence that I can handle my weapon and that it can handle the elements. The weather Sunday was glorious; cool all day, no clouds, and surrounded by beautiful Florida pine scrub. Plus, the shooting bay had dried up almost completely overnight!

    INSTRUCTORS/STUDENTS: Obviously Brownie was the lead instructor for the weekend. This was my first time meeting him, and he proved to be a very open and warm guy. Within the first 30 seconds of meeting me at dinner on Friday night, he was telling me to ask any question of him I wanted about any skill we practiced or discussed on the forum. I know he was sincere, because during our down times throughout the weekend, he demoed open-hand combatives, knife defenses, blade sharpening and more. He didn't have to do those things since they were outside the purview of this course, and much of this is material that he teaches during other paid classes. But certainly, it whetted my appetite to sign up for these classes in the future, and showed that Brownie is a teacher at heart. I believe he actually enjoys imparting knowledge and skill to his students, and takes evident joy in their successes. Mr. Brown was patient and willing to slow down when someone needed extra coaching, without coming across as condescending. He does tell a lot of stories, but they are all engaging/entertaining, and usually he'll bring them back around to make a point about whatever skill we are focusing on.

    Brownie was assisted by several range officers during the weekend: BladeNBullet, Exbluelight, Rvrctyrngr, Jim45, milkmanjoe, and maybe one or two others I am forgetting at the moment. Each RSO was professional and truly helpful. They weren't just there to make sure you didn't muzzle you neighbor, they actually broke down skills and gave instruction on each drill. I personally want to thank Scott and Jim who were usually working the end of the range I was on. They were direct and clear in their instructions, and I'm a better shooter for that. Truly, all the RSOs were pros!

    Our class had about 17 students in it. There were men and women, young and old. Some people had only a year (or less) of experience in shooting; others had decades behind them. Some were shooting fancy 1911s, while others shot utilitarian Glocks. Single stacks, double stacks, US-manufactured, foreign-made, and several different calibers were used. Each weapon was able to handle the drills, each shooter developed the skills regardless of the tool in their hand.

    BTW, it was great to put faces with screen names! I hope I get the chance to train with each of you good folks again!

    EXPERIENCE/EQUIPMENT: I've been shooting pistols for about 3 years. I go to the range on average 1-2 times a month. Prior to this class, I have taken 3 other professional training sessions (including my CCW class).

    For this weekend, I was shooting a Walther PPS and it held up fine during the course. The only "malfunction" I had was a single stove pipe. The PPS is a compact single stack 9mm, and I was at a bit of a disadvantage because of it. I only brought 4 mags with me, which meant frequent reloads, and less rounds fired than those who brought full size, double stack guns. Throughout the entire course, I only used about 600 rounds! That was far less than the 1200 that was predicted for those shooting single stacks. Nearly all of this differential is attributed to the inclement weather (forced breaks on Saturday) and the fact that I brought too few magazines. Most people with full size guns said they shot 1,000-1,200 rounds for the weekend.

    My advice to future students: If you shoot a single stack gun, bring as many mags as you possibly can (shoot for 7 or 8). If you shoot a double stack, you can get away with less magazines (3 or 4 minimum) but bring lots of extra ammo. On the hi-cap mag dumps, you can burn a lot of bullets!

    DRILLS/SKILLS: The good stuff!

    Here is the list of skills and progressions we worked on, along with a few thoughts on each:

    DAY 1
    1. Clearing cover garments and the scoop draw: Brownie said this was a different way for him to start off the class, but I'm glad he did. Although the rest of the course was shot "open carry," this was good practice that many of us can't get at our local ranges. The scoop draw is important: it works, and it's faster than a traditional draw stroke. Search the forums for Brownie's explanation on what it is and how it works. It was different for me and I need to practice it. A lot.

    2. Half-hip shooting: Wow! Who would have guessed shooting from the hip could be so accurate? It's fast and accurate, even when I pull the trigger as rapidly as possible. This was true out to about 10 feet. Once you know how to lock in the elbow, you gain so much confidence in this skill that you quickly become convinced that this is how you will fire if you are ever involved in the typical defensive gun use.

    3. 3/4 hip: Further extension from the half hip position. This skill comes into its own on transitions to and from multiple targets. Convulsive grip, nose index, turret like a tank. If my memory serves me correctly, at one point Brownie had us doing 3/4 hip at about 20 feet just to make a point: If your gun is level, these skills are extendable until the bullet starts to drop due to physics.

    4. Point Shoulder: One-handed, full extension at shoulder height. PS was an interesting skill to me. I wasn't overly good at it, because I had trouble keeping my shoulders squared. Additionally, if you have time to go to one handed point shoulder, you have time to go to 2 handed quick kill, which seems to be more reliable (for me). Of course, point shoulder was necessary for the next skill:

    5. Zipper: This is an insanely practical skill that incorporates the three above positions. Again, this is the sort of shooting that will save your life on the street.

    6. The Bump: Most people said the "Wall of Bullets" was their favorite skill/drill. Not me. "The Bump" was my favorite! Headshots from the hip? Consistently? Yep! Like Brownie said, "You can look someone in the eye and tell them, 'I can *$#%&#*$ shoot you in the head from the hip right now if I wanted to'." You can't help but feel like a beast when you learn this skill.


    DAY 2
    7. Shooting with movement left and right: Just a simple step combined with a half hip shot, but it's enough to move you out of the line of fire, and it stays accurate with the movement. Toss in a head fake, and you can shoot without being shot. MEMORABLE QUOTE: "I don't understand these people who say, 'get off the x.' When you move off of this x, you've only moved to another x because YOU ARE THE X! Don't move off the x, move out of the line of fire!"

    8. Target transitions: 3/4 hip, engaging multiples.

    9. Two-handed quick kill: Brownie's signature skill, a registered copyright that I don't want to explain too much for fear of being sued! Using his "Enhanced Peripheral Vision" I watched Brownie snap shoot a beer bottle on a dirt berm from 20 yards IN ONE TRY. Yeah, it happened.

    10. Ping pong ball challenge: Brownie set up 1 inch ping pong ball SIXTY FEET away and had us take sighted, precision shots at it. Kudos to LittleGator (and someone else - ActionYak? Franklin?) for hitting it! After that, we all tried to hit the ping pong ball at SIXTY FEET using only quick kill shots. Several members who did not hit the ball sighted, hit the ball at 60 feet without using their sights. From my perspective, NOBODY was worse unsighted than they were shooting sighted. Maybe this doesn't seem all that impressive to you, but being there and experiencing it firsthand was incredible. It was worth the price of the class alone!

    11. 3/4 hip shooting gallery: Clay targets, ping pong balls and beer bottles set up on the dirt berm like a shooting gallery. Ammo burning fun! Hit an aluminum bottle and it would shoot 6 feet up in the air.

    12. Wall of Bullets: Two man fire teams working in tandem to provide a non-stop hail of gunfire on a target.

    There were several skills that Brownie said he had covered in other classes including the "inquartata" and shooting while lying on your side on the ground. Stuff I would love to work on, but there was plenty offered for me to practice for now.

    I left convinced that with just a little bit of practice, non-sighted shooting by the average shooter can be even more deadly (because of its speed) and no less accurate than acquiring a front sight press or a standard sight picture. I am looking forward to signing up for Brownie's H2H course next year, and I need some help from you all in pressuring him to host a force-on-force class soon!

    - Take the class! The skills you learn and the confidence they give you are worth cost.
    __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________
    __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________

    The velvet hammer has struck again. Headmaster Brownie’s Threat Focused College of Knowledge was a pistol and self defense info dump. The skills and techniques he showed us will keep me busy practicing what I learned, as he say’s, “until I own it.” That may take a while.

    For two days (one very wet), an assortment of personalities with various backgrounds came together at the Volusia County Hunt & Gun Club for a single purpose. We were there to learn how to employ defensive skills and techniques to be able to protect family, self and others from a potentially lethal confrontation. That is, when there is no other reasonable alternative if “that day” comes, he taught us enough to give us an edge to be the one's walking away from a bad situation.

    My thanks to Brownie and his team of RO’s for sharing their experience. When they weren't speaking to me directly I listened to what they were saying to others.
    __________________________________________________ _________________________________________________
    __________________________________________________ _________________________________________________

    For anyone thinking $400 is a big price tag for a course and then another big bill for all the ammo that you will use, yes it is. [U ] It was worth every dollar[/U]. Everyone attending did well and we even had some who have been through the class a few years ago and ponied up to do it all again. They found that much value in it. Frankly unless you are a skilled gun fighter along the lines of a shoot from the hip old west cowboy, not just a skilled target shooter, then this course is a genuine investment and not just a payment. Brownie goes as slow or as fast as necessary to bring you along and even with all the rain delays we had we still got through the course. My hit ratio, as well as EVERY OTHER PERSON'S IN THE CLASS, was over 95% on the new skills right away due to the simplified way he delivers his techniques.

    When he says "the mind is the limiting factor, I know it sounds like a tag line or some psychological sales pitch but if you will trust in his instruction and just suspend disbelief long enough to give things a try his way you can succeed greatly. The best part is that the techniques are not cookie cutter tactics that only have a narrow focus. They start at close encounter, then at extended range, and finally go to diversity of physical and situational applicability. How does he do it? He does not actually do it, you do it. Your familiarity with your own body that you have built a lifetime of fine tuning is the basis which he builds upon and then he makes the pistol an extension of your arm and the barrel your 6th finger.

    If yall are at all familiar with the political section then you know that Brownie and I give each other lots of crap over his outdated political opinions ( ) and as much as I would like to yank his chain a bit about the class I just can't. He was a focused and diligent instructor and I walked away with a whole bag of skills and confidence beyond what I was expecting. Should I ever have the misfortune to find myself in a life and death situation I can say without a doubt that I will be 3 or 4 times as fast as when I walked in plus my accuracy and confidence are many magnitudes better too.

    Its no stretch to say the investment I made this weekend could honestly save my life or that of a loved one some day.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _

    Another enlightening and skills packed course put on by Brownie, with the help of his RSOs, that I’m grateful to have had the privilege of attending.
    Thoroughly enjoyed meeting some new folks and catching up with members from previous classes.

    I won’t rehash the excellent posts from Webster and others found above, as they’ve hit spot on the essence of what was delivered the past 2 days.
    Instead, I’ll provide my thoughts/opinions on why, whenever possible, I’ll be attending classes put on by Brownie.

    1. He delivers highly effective self-defense skills which can immediately be put to use in a real world SHTF encounter.
    It doesn’t matter if the discipline is in H2H, blades, or firearms; You will come out of his courses with the knowledge required to apply an effective response to a threat.

    2. His courses are all meat, no BS instruction, without wasting time on ‘fluff’ that you can go learn on your own time.
    If you are screwing up any of the skills, he lets you know it and then helps get you on the right path to making the necessary corrections.

    3. He provides instruction based on his years of professional experience utilizing multiple disciplines.
    These aren’t courses in theory, they are skills he is imparting based in this world’s unfortunately ugly realities.

    4. His character. “Brownie is Brownie” and if you’ve taken any of his classes in the past you know what I’m talking about.
    His demeanor and delivery style have a way of keeping you fully engaged.
    I’ve taken half day classes that I couldn’t wait to be over. Whereas Brownie’s 2 day courses seem to always fly by and end way too soon.
    There’s a reason why so many students in class are already talking about plans for the next class an hour before the end of the current one!

    5. The caliber of students and RSO’s who attend these courses amazes me. I always look forward to the before and after class socializing with such a great group of folks.

    Even though I wasn’t able to knock off the beer pong ball like a few other folks, I feel I’ve now got a clear path to follow to get there.
    (And yes folks, those were MY orange beer pong balls… I hope you all understand and appreciate the sacrifice there. )

    Brownie – Thanks again for taking the time to travel and impart some of your knowledge to us. Always a pleasure my friend. Stay well. Looking forward to January.
    I’ll pray for all of us never needing to use these skills, but hoping we’ll endeavor to put the time in to get past ‘thinking’ we can and getting to ‘knowing’ we can.
    __________________________________________________ _______________________________________________
    __________________________________________________ _______________________________________________

    Brownie, it was a pleasure getting to learn from you over those two days. Thanks for setting this up here in FL so far from your home. Finally had a chance to go through my range bag and count up remaining ammo. The rain definitely hosed us on Saturday, but Sunday was absolutely perfect. Total round count for me over the two days was 1296, with only 450 of that in the rain on Saturday.

    The write up by Webster does a better job than I could do on the course itself. It was great seeing a lot of familiar faces from the H2H course and meeting new people. Huge thanks to our RSO's that were on the course and remained vigilant at all times. Rick, it was great seeing you again. Scott and Jim, thanks for all the tips and the quick adjustment on that sheath for the street beat!

    My favorites over the two days: the zipper and 3/4 hip at the bottles gunfighter style. That was a blast!

    Franklin, you are a true gentleman and it was an honor to learn the wall of bullets with you. Sorry for deploying the massive mag on that first run, we ran out of distance before we ran out of bullets!

    I look forward to more training in the future. A force on force class would be awesome to learn how to put these skills to work against a non static target. (Hint, Hint, Brownie.)
    __________________________________________________ ______________________________________________
    __________________________________________________ ______________________________________________

    Funny, the progressive left says gun people are ignorant racists. They make us sound bad. What I thought so awesome was the caliber of people, clearly extremely intelligent, polished and polite and family oriented. We were all willing sponges.
    I sometimes meet naturally great shots, I shot next to Chad (action yak), and guys like him truly p**s me off. Only shooting a year he was amazing.
    Our shooting line was long and while others turn at bat, I walked down the shooting line, dang there were some seriously good shots here. Warrior Princess was as beautiful and poised as she was a good shoot. She would complain about her fliers, which would have been my good shots. Holy smokes they would be an inch from dead center. LOVED shooting next to edge water and his wife. I love this couple shooting together and I watch. They were loving and kind to one another, clearly enjoying each other's company. Webster looked 15 and was a walking poster child for the Boy Scouts. Action Yam looked like a sumo wrestler and missed his calling, professional football. BnB was not what I expected. I was expecting a round rimmed glasses bow tie wearing brainiac...not so much.
    The wall of bullets was by far my favorite and shooting that with Chad a perfect ending, except for his 32 found mags. Brownie stopped us about four feet from the target and I had an unused mag! Dang it Chad. Brownie let us do it again, thank you Brownie, and Brownie joined us, making a three man team. Practicing feed problems a must, I had a double feed but knew what to do and didn't slow my team down. I only had two mags that drill and called out at which point Brownie seamlessly took my place as I stopped on a knee.
    It was an incredible learning experience and GREAT fun. All should try and attend.
    Everyone one I met I would happily and proudly call friend and look forward to seeing all again.
    Pitor and Xbonz joined us for dinner and it was great seeing them.
    More than half there wore Panther holsters (me too) and compliments flew. Scott and I (was great seeing you) proudly wore our Panther hats (good looking) and Jim was there too! Ex Blue was every bit the gentleman I expected.
    I had an amazing time and was sad to say good bye to all.
    Thank you.Brownie for the wonderful learning experience!
    I am grateful!
    The mind is the limiting factor

    Quick Kill Rifle and Pistol Instructor


  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array TSiWRX's Avatar
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    I need to get out to AZ.

    Instinctive and point-shooting is definitely something I want to learn the correct way. This sounds like a great class.
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    Distinguished Member Array brocktice's Avatar
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    Was this your class then?
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    I cannot wait ! got my ammo cache built up, changing out mag springs and picking up some speed loaders for revolver time. So, 1200 rounds of .38 super, 400 rounds on .41 magnum . I am all kinds of geared up for this
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    Quote Originally Posted by brocktice View Post
    Was this your class then?
    Yes sir, rifle QK course in Jan same location and another h2h/edged weapons course in late April in Lake Mary [ or I may do a fof that month before the heat comes in ]. I don't train in Fla over the summer, the humidity kicks my butt
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    The mind is the limiting factor

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    Distinguished Member Array brocktice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    Yes sir, rifle QK course in Jan same location and another h2h/edged weapons course in late April in Lake Mary [ or I may do a fof that month before the heat comes in ]. I don't train in Fla over the summer, the humidity kicks my butt
    Let me know if you have anything in AZ coming up, I'm within driving distance.

    Posting from my phone, I blame all typos on Swype.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    Yes sir, rifle QK course in Jan same location and another h2h/edged weapons course in late April in Lake Mary [ or I may do a fof that month before the heat comes in ]. I don't train in Fla over the summer, the humidity kicks my butt
    Brownie, if you hate it in Florida, I can really see why you would not want to do this in Louisiana
    ..

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    Quote Originally Posted by brocktice View Post
    Let me know if you have anything in AZ coming up, I'm within driving distance.

    Posting from my phone, I blame all typos on Swype.
    Anytime you want to hook up, pm me. I don't hold courses out here like Fla but do 1 on 1 or 2-3 at a time often enough. Be a pleasure to meet and train with you in the desert.
    The mind is the limiting factor

    Quick Kill Rifle and Pistol Instructor

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    Quote Originally Posted by gatorbait51 View Post
    Brownie, if you hate it in Florida, I can really see why you would not want to do this in Louisiana
    ..
    I've trained in N. Orleans a few times with the blades with Jimmy Keating, but it was indoors. Can't be any worse than training swat in S Texas in August, though it was one tough course for me due to the humidity and that was a few years ago now.

    I'd come to any location if a range or private land could be secured where we can train like we do. A lot of ranges won't allow this type of course. If you've got some ideas, pm me.
    The mind is the limiting factor

    Quick Kill Rifle and Pistol Instructor

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    From the first review on QK pistol

    I watched Brownie snap shoot a beer bottle on a dirt berm from 20 yards IN ONE TRY. Yeah, it happened.

    I'd mentioned hitting hubcaps at 100 yds in another thread and some felt that was a little far fetched, they'd like to see vid of it. Though I don't have vid of that to put up, the above should give people an idea it's quite doable shooting a 12" hubcap at 100 yrds..

    Just gotta trust the skills, as one of the reviews mentions also.
    The mind is the limiting factor

    Quick Kill Rifle and Pistol Instructor

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    BTTT,

    Thought I see more naysayers posting it's all snake oil or questioning these threat focused skills.

    There'll be a rifle quick kill course in Fla in mid Jan 2014, and we'll put these pistol skills to the test once again in a fof course that should go down sometime in April or May next year at a mid Fla. location before we do the h2h/defensive edged weapons training in Lake Mary sometime in July/August [ it's indoors so we reserve that training for the hot weather ].
    The mind is the limiting factor

    Quick Kill Rifle and Pistol Instructor

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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    I've trained in N. Orleans a few times with the blades with Jimmy Keating, but it was indoors. Can't be any worse than training swat in S Texas in August, though it was one tough course for me due to the humidity and that was a few years ago now.

    I'd come to any location if a range or private land could be secured where we can train like we do. A lot of ranges won't allow this type of course. If you've got some ideas, pm me.
    I see that you are a sponsor so I will ask. What kind of lead time do you need, Number of students, and cost of the QK pistol class. I am interested, and I have some students that will be as well...
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    I see that you are a sponsor so I will ask. What kind of lead time do you need, Number of students, and cost of the QK pistol class. I am interested, and I have some students that will be as well...
    Not much lead time, a couple of months would suffice as long as there's a range we can use to get this done, I'll fly in. Coordinate with a sponsor to get targets delivered and we'll need stands made or provided. I pick up all range use fees, etc. Sponsor shoots gratis for getting it together.
    The mind is the limiting factor

    Quick Kill Rifle and Pistol Instructor

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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    Not much lead time, a couple of months would suffice as long as there's a range we can use to get this done, I'll fly in. Coordinate with a sponsor to get targets delivered and we'll need stands made or provided. I pick up all range use fees, etc. Sponsor shoots gratis for getting it together.
    I have access to everything we need. Just need a price and ammo count and min student requirement... Thanks.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    I have access to everything we need. Just need a price and ammo count and min student requirement... Thanks.
    400.00 per for two days. Ammo count can run from 800-1000 for single stacks and 1200-1500 for double stacks [ providing each has enough mags ], 8-10 students.
    The mind is the limiting factor

    Quick Kill Rifle and Pistol Instructor

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