You tube vid up- WW2 point shoulder from 7 yrds

This is a discussion on You tube vid up- WW2 point shoulder from 7 yrds within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Fairbairn/Sykes/Applegate Point Shoulder pistol skill: Point Shoulder @ 7 yrds - YouTube...

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Thread: You tube vid up- WW2 point shoulder from 7 yrds

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    You tube vid up- WW2 point shoulder from 7 yrds

    Fairbairn/Sykes/Applegate Point Shoulder pistol skill:

    Point Shoulder @ 7 yrds - YouTube
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    Great video, shows the old stuff still works very well. Thank God , I'm old stuff too. It is more difficult for me to jump around with a cane and gun in hand. It also highlights that sometimes, there is no getting off the X so to speak. It is all about rounds on target as quickly and accurately as possible. Been reading and re reading the Fairbairn/Sykes/Applegate books and how much of it makes sense now, just as it did 70-80 years ago. I would hazard the guess that in Shanghai, the multiple attacker scenario was not unknown . I'd also think that it was not unknown for the OSS or other Special Operators then and now.

    Point is, the videos have a lot to offer,if for nothing else , as primers before going into training or even a fight .
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    First: Glad to hear you are reading FSA materials published quite some time ago in several books that are available to anyone so inclined.

    The video's I have been throwing up the last month simply demonstrate that one doesn't need to find their sights or even go to line of sight past bad breath distance as many [ some here ] have expressed in the past erroneously. Wait till I throw up the Pistol Quick Kill vid demo, no sights to 35 yrds in real time at just below line of sight and ignoring looking at the gun or sights.

    Thanks for your thoughts.
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    If I have gleaned this correctly, Applegate was more into sort of using a sight more than either Fairbairn or Sykes. Applegate wasn't wedded to the sight for close range combat but did seem to be more into combining point shooting with his front sight for longer than 15 feet. Anyway, that's the impression I got from his writings.

    All in all the basics do not seem to vary too much .

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    Bill Jordan's book "No Second Place Winner" is very informative on point shooting.

    A lot of folks just seem to think that "Point shooting" of any kind is just too archaic. I feel sure that a lot of "modern day" instructors steer clear of videos like this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldskeetshooter View Post
    Bill Jordan's book "No Second Place Winner" is very informative on point shooting.

    A lot of folks just seem to think that "Point shooting" of any kind is just too archaic. I feel sure that a lot of "modern day" instructors steer clear of videos like this.
    Got any ideas as to why that is?

    I think there's several reasons for that.
    One is they don't know it, or how to teach it
    Two, they're on record for years stating what's clearly seen in the video's is impossible and don't like having to eat crow for their uneducated opinions on the skills.
    Three, it takes students[ and thus revenue ] from them as others discover there's another world out there beside front sight press.

    Got any of your own that don't meet my ideas?
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    Quote Originally Posted by gatorbait51 View Post
    If I have gleaned this correctly, Applegate was more into sort of using a sight more than either Fairbairn or Sykes. Applegate wasn't wedded to the sight for close range combat but did seem to be more into combining point shooting with his front sight for longer than 15 feet. Anyway, that's the impression I got from his writings.

    All in all the basics do not seem to vary too much .
    Applegate didn't like 1/2 and 3/4 hip, professed point shoulder for most sd work, though later in life, he did admit that 1/2 and 3/4 hip skills were important and viable [ he'd changed his mind on them over many years ].
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldskeetshooter View Post
    Bill Jordan's book "No Second Place Winner" is very informative on point shooting.

    A lot of folks just seem to think that "Point shooting" of any kind is just too archaic. I feel sure that a lot of "modern day" instructors steer clear of videos like this.
    I have an autographed copy of Jordan's book. There's some great and logical thinking in there . I also enjoyed his and Elmer Keith's advocacy of the .41 Magnum, a sidearm and round I really like.

    Archaic ? Well, maybe . But Truman wrote " The future is history you have not yet read" and I tend to find this observation to be true. I do not see that point shooting is something to be ignored, nor do I see any reason to not train with as many philosophies as one can absorb or afford. Few here , outside the pros, will every become a Jordan or a Fairbairn or an Applegate. All here can become a deadlier adversary for the emboldened wilding crowds or the individual entitled thug who wants your blood and treasure .

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    Quote Originally Posted by oldskeetshooter View Post
    I feel sure that a lot of "modern day" instructors steer clear of videos like this.
    The ones I deal with don't avoid it in the slightest.

    I have on a shelf somewhere the complete video the Army did that was a kind of documentary/public-relations film about Army training in the Applegate method. Thirty minutes? I think it is, maybe forty, of someone taking a small class through the course. It's very interesting, seeing how it was taught and done at the time. The only thing that bothers me is that their idea of a 'slight forward lean' makes my lower back hurt just looking at it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    Got any ideas as to why that is?

    I think there's several reasons for that.
    One is they don't know it, or how to teach it
    Two, they're on record for years stating what's clearly seen in the video's is impossible and don't like having to eat crow for their uneducated opinions on the skills.
    Three, it takes students[ and thus revenue ] from them as others discover there's another world out there beside front sight press.

    Got any of your own that don't meet my ideas?
    I have two chapters in the first book that between them cover every reason I have come up with so far why they do. I think I have a couple or so extra ones, but the core of it pretty much matches your thinking here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gatorbait51 View Post
    If I have gleaned this correctly, Applegate was more into sort of using a sight more than either Fairbairn or Sykes. Applegate wasn't wedded to the sight for close range combat but did seem to be more into combining point shooting with his front sight for longer than 15 feet. Anyway, that's the impression I got from his writings.

    All in all the basics do not seem to vary too much .
    The Army training video I have, made in WWII that shows the method being trained, takes shooting out to 50 yards as I recall. Fairbairn based his teachings on the closer-ranged encounters. Applegate's training group did rotate instructors into front-line duty on a regular basis, so I can only assume that they included that based on feedback from the front.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    Fairbairn/Sykes/Applegate Point Shoulder pistol skill:

    Point Shoulder @ 7 yrds - YouTube
    Well, he got hits. But none were to a vital area.
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    Good stuff. Integration of skills is my focus. To be combat effective at all realistic ranges.

    I've demonstrated my point shooting skills under the watchful eye of a point shooting instructor. He wasn't the first to teach me point shooting.

    My first point shooting coach was William J. Collins who had worked side by side with Buford Pusser of Walking Tall fame in McNairy CO TN. In the days he used these skills to survive, law enforcement work in TN was "interesting". Old Jim has passed, but I enjoyed the coaching and hours of stories from "Back in the Day".
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    Well, he got hits. But none were to a vital area.
    Any hit on the BG is bad for him and good for you IMHO. Keep in mind this is a 2D target representing a 3D bad guy.

    I've hit a APBT in a supposed vital area with a 230gr Hydra Shok; I hit him right where his neck meets his chest while he was charging me. The bullet followed the sternum and exited the solar plexus. Not a single vital was struck and the dog didn't even get a stitch. It did change his behavior though. So much for the 45 ACP being the hammer of Thor.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    Well, he got hits. But none were to a vital area.
    I count 4 to organs, 2 to joints. As the threat is right handed, the forearm and shoulder shot are effective in the real world at ending any potential incoming with any effectiveness if at all. Organs are vital areas. The more organs hit, the faster the bp drops, the faster they aren't viable as a threat any longer.

    Starting with the upper shot on torso and moving down.

    1st-lung shot
    2nd- liver, stomach, probably large intestine
    3rd- liver, large intestine,
    4th-liver, gall bladder, kidney, large intestine
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