The Seven Concepts of the Handgun and the Benefits of Conceptual Training

This is a discussion on The Seven Concepts of the Handgun and the Benefits of Conceptual Training within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Here is a blog article stating largely what I have found to be the things needed for those who carry and want to protect their ...

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    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    The Seven Concepts of the Handgun and the Benefits of Conceptual Training

    Here is a blog article stating largely what I have found to be the things needed for those who carry and want to protect their loved ones. It is written by he who I learned it from.

    Like Roger I found all I had learned and knew to fall short for what I could see a true gunfight/protection of what's needed by a CCW person. Standing tall and shooting with sights just did not fit what I saw being needed in most situation I could envision in my mind. I found Roger Phillips writing on the net and they made sense. I signed up for a class and have been studying Roger's teaching ever since.

    Doing FOF has shown me that what I learned from Roger's classes and teaching worked.


    "A fight is a fight, it does not matter what kind of fight it is. Fist fight, knife fight, gun fight…..the bottom line is that it is a fight. If as an individual, you were blessed with God-given talents and strengths, why would you ever abandon those attributes? The answer to that is that you would not and do not abandon them, no matter who tells you “this is all that you will ever need.” The idea that all I could handle was a few, limited, disjointed skills is absolute lunacy to me. There is not one event in my life that has ever told me that I could not handle transitioning through a fluid situational response when the chips were down. The idea of dumbing something down so that I could perform it under stress is as foreign to me as a traditional Lithuanian dance.

    The reality of the fight is that “situations dictate strategy, strategy dictates tactics, and tactics dictate techniques.” Any fighting system that has the techniques dictating anything should raise a huge red flag. The statement above means that we must be as well-rounded and versatile as we possibly can be. The question is how do you incorporate all of this well roundness and versatility into a simple fighting concept? The answer is that we train in “concepts” that work within the correct context of the fight."


    Read the whole article here

    The Seven Concepts of the Handgun and the Benefits of Conceptual Training | Fight Focused Concepts
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    I have had the fortune of training the way Roger is advocating. I like the MT, but he is absolutely correct about the gaps in the MT. Those gaps do need to be close, once you can fill the gaps you can continue your education. The other point that stuck out for me was the term "fight" I think folks sometimes forget that is what is happening, its a fight with a tool interjected into it. Learning to fight with your handgun, knife and fists should be IMO part of everyone's training.....
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    Seems those who instruct have a problem with what is theirs and what they learned from others and we have feuds, agreements and name callings between them. While my understanding is this is true with these I name, much of what they teach comes from those all long ago GREATS, in the gun fighting world, that are not here any more to argue. Very little is new any more we all stole/leaned what we know from the doings of others one way or another.

    One of those who Roger learned from is Matt Temkin who I now understand was taught and trained under AzQkr (Brownie) who learned what he knows from others who were, or who were taught by, those greats that actually were in many gunfights. So in one way guess I am learning from the greats of old.

    My understanding, MT came about after the need to and of gunfights were no longer the norm. MT come into it's place for those on the square range and competing in competition. They moved the fight from being between men to paper targets. Where using the sights for tight groups were what was needed to show best shot and to win the match. Paper targets don't shoot back but the range master will look at the group you shot after your time on the line. In a match, tight groups win the fight of paper. In a actual fight, no one will really look at your grouping but your stopping the fight with your fast hits will save your life and the fight. Myself I'll go with being safe and being able to go home over bragging rights any day in my daily life.

    My advice...want to be great at something...look to the past....it's most likely already be done...just forgotten by those in the present.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

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    My understanding, MT came about after the need to and of gunfights were no longer the norm. MT come into it's place for those on the square range and competing in competition. They moved the fight from being between men to paper targets. Where using the sights for tight groups were what was needed to show best shot and to win the match.


    For a better perspective / understanding on the so called Modern Technique, I offer this (post #50) as a good place to start:

    Total Protection Interactive
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    Senior Member Array CR Williams's Avatar
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    Modern Technique, the FAS system of point shooting, and some others have become the Traditional Martial Arts of the gunfighting world. Like TMAs, they can and do still win fights and save lives, but systems have developed after them that are more optimized and more effective within the fight environment we face here, today. They were optimized for the fight environments their founders and developers saw at the time, but have not continued to progress and change as the fight environment changed. For that matter, even some recently-developed systems appear to have the same limitations, so it doesn't have to be old to be a TMA, neither is it a TMA just because it's old. The fact remains, there are better systems now. None perfect, none that guarantee victory, just some that will increase the odds more than the TMA systems will.
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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CR Williams View Post
    Modern Technique, the FAS system of point shooting, and some others have become the Traditional Martial Arts of the gunfighting world. Like TMAs, they can and do still win fights and save lives, but systems have developed after them that are more optimized and more effective within the fight environment we face here, today. They were optimized for the fight environments their founders and developers saw at the time, but have not continued to progress and change as the fight environment changed. For that matter, even some recently-developed systems appear to have the same limitations, so it doesn't have to be old to be a TMA, neither is it a TMA just because it's old. The fact remains, there are better systems now. None perfect, none that guarantee victory, just some that will increase the odds more than the TMA systems will.

    I agree with the statement in bold. I love the modern Technique, but have pulled peaces of the old to fill in the gaps of the new. Continue to evolve as Martial Artists of the gun is what we as carriers and Instructors MUST do. Absolutes should never be part of our mindset as it pertains to learning...IMO..
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    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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    I agree. But the problem I have is that , the Modern Technique required the mastery of marksmanship fundamentals.

    Now, as much as I agree with the evolution of fighting skills, a solid foundation MUST be established of these fundamentals of marksmanship before the student progresses to further advanced styles or training.

    Show me anyone, who has not, and attends a shoot'em class, or, a martial artist that has learned without the basic instruction, and I will show you someone I wouldn't think twice about fighting.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

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    Distinguished Member Array BadgerJ's Avatar
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    The article might be good, the information helpful but as an article it is an epic fail. You need a top list of the seven concepts in bullet point format, to allow the reader to quickly skim and prioritize to their needs.

    A wall of text even with paragraphs is just impossible to digest. I don't know what your concepts are, where they are derived from and what kind of person can use these.

    Try it again and give it some bold headers and some bullet points and at the end a synopsis, is my suggestion. You want people to read it and to get that you need organizational flow.

    HTH

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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadgerJ View Post
    The article might be good, the information helpful but as an article it is an epic fail. You need a top list of the seven concepts in bullet point format, to allow the reader to quickly skim and prioritize to their needs.

    A wall of text even with paragraphs is just impossible to digest. I don't know what your concepts are, where they are derived from and what kind of person can use these.

    Try it again and give it some bold headers and some bullet points and at the end a synopsis, is my suggestion. You want people to read it and to get that you need organizational flow.

    HTH
    So to get this straight. You want him to dumb it down. Reading is fundamental......
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    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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    I think the artical is nice, it has some nice pictures, but I cant agree with the author about several things... But it is a nice artical.
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    Huh? I'm not as "baffled" as Badger, but this reminds me of a man I once knew. It was said of him, "he can talk about any
    subject for 2 hours; 4 if he actually knows something about it." There was a simple message in there. "Keep it fluid and flexible
    and respond as things unfold."

    Now, what the heck is MT?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Huh? I'm not as "baffled" as Badger, but this reminds me of a man I once knew. It was said of him, "he can talk about any
    subject for 2 hours; 4 if he actually knows something about it." There was a simple message in there. "Keep it fluid and flexible
    and respond as things unfold."

    Now, what the heck is MT
    ?
    Modern Technique...
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    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Secret Spuk View Post
    I think the artical is nice, it has some nice pictures, but I cant agree with the author about several things... But it is a nice artical.
    Spuk, could you expand on that? I think you bring some good concepts to our table.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    Modern Technique...
    What the heck is "Modern Technique?"

    I'm not being a wise acre here. Author was trying to compare his 'approach' to MT, but he was assuming
    the audience all knew what MT was; and since he wrote a Blog aimed for a specific audience, perhaps they do.
    But here, there is a wider audience than LEOs, and trained security personnel.
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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    What the heck is "Modern Technique?"

    I'm not being a wise acre here. Author was trying to compare his 'approach' to MT, but he was assuming
    the audience all knew what MT was; and since he wrote a Blog aimed for a specific audience, perhaps they do.
    But here, there is a wider audience than LEOs, and trained security personnel.
    No problem, think magpul, pincus, haley, costa, and others along those lines. As far as old school, think Brownie. Sorry brownie, but you are an OG.....
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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