Shooting to your 6 O'clock up on you tube

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Thread: Shooting to your 6 O'clock up on you tube

  1. #1
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    Shooting to your 6 O'clock up on you tube

    Shooting to your 6 with movement - YouTube

    Starting to add movement to the defensive response.
    The mind is the limiting factor

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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Standing and delivering rounds with my back towards the target is something I will not do. I will be turning to the left or the right while making dynamic movement and delivering shots on target. Once again, I appreciate your videos, but this is one I am going to have to pass on. I hope you take no offense.....
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    None at all Harry. The idea once the skills movement has been ingrained is to start getting off line as you're drawing as in the last two runs. The first ones are static to demo the skill itself. When I worked with this initially, the idea was there may be a time when one may be addressing something in front of him, and determines there's a bg at his 6 that needs lead on him rfn while moving out of his way and not waiting to turn the body to address same.

    Before I allow any student to start the movement to get off line, they have to have enough time in winding up properly so their non shooting hand is never out there and in danger of being shot. It also gets people to think about shooting in a 360 world without always having to wait to face the threat.
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    Member Array jake01's Avatar
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    I have to agree with Harry.
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    Distinguished Member Array Exacto's Avatar
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    One of a few different ways to engage a threat from behind. You could just turn to the gun side and avoid the possibility of sweeping your other arm.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exacto View Post
    One of a few different ways to engage a threat from behind. You could just turn to the gun side and avoid the possibility of sweeping your other arm.
    That affords the possibility of a gun grab if you're rushed or they are near contact distance. One could be right on top of you as well, protecting the firearm from a possible gun grab was the main idea here, but you could also be engaging out to 4 yrds. I prefer one skill that covers and works for both than two different skills set. But you're right, there are some people out there who've developed moving to their strong side as they draw if the gun isn't already out and operational when the threat presents itself.

    I find that turning to the strong side has more liability attached generally.
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    Senior Member Array patri0t's Avatar
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    I taught Troopers to face their target before shooting. I don't think I'd want to be on the range while they were 'shooting-while-spinning' in some sort of deadly ballet.
    Take an extra second, and aim, is how I was taught.

    Shooting without using the sights would get someone sued in a hurry.
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    Obviously no one drill or technique covers every situation, but I think this is a very good one to have in your back pocket. Like the OP says, this is the basic foundation for more advanced skills. A couple very plausible scenarios:

    - Ambush attack
    - You're trying to avoid or evade the threat and realize BG is gaining on you, you're getting winded, or running out of places to go.

    3 good things that come from the relatively static drill at the beginning of the video:
    - Target ID/threat assessment - turn and look first
    - Muzzle control - muzzle doesn't sweep the crowd
    - Body awareness - muzzle doesn't sweep the body, and off-hand doesn't wave in front of the muzzle.

    As that skill builds, how about this variation? Have a friend adjust the targets while your back is towards them. Mix up neutrals/nonlethal threats. Tape printouts of guns, knives, cell phones, and empty hands, and see how it goes from there. My bet is that in the time it takes to ID and assess the target(s), you've got some time to get off the X.

    Edit - one more thing: A nice thing about this basic skill is that there are some times (and the range you're showing this at is a good example), where you want to make or keep range between you and the threat while shooting. Having this skill is nice because BGs don't always stop just because you put one or twenty holes in them.

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    Senior Member Array velo99's Avatar
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    You don't know its a threat until you see it. IMO that's a terrible drill. The only time that could possibly be useful is when you see the BG's reflection.
    The entire premise is wrong. You're basically assessing a possible threat with a drawn weapon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by patri0t View Post
    I taught Troopers to face their target before shooting. I don't think I'd want to be on the range while they were 'shooting-while-spinning' in some sort of deadly ballet.
    Take an extra second, and aim, is how I was taught.

    Shooting without using the sights would get someone sued in a hurry.
    What if you don't have a second?. In that one second, you could have put lead on him and started to move.
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    Senior Member Array velo99's Avatar
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    If you let BG get that close, you need to work on your SA.
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    Quote Originally Posted by velo99 View Post
    You don't know its a threat until you see it. IMO that's a terrible drill. The only time that could possibly be useful is when you see the BG's reflection.
    The entire premise is wrong. You're basically assessing a possible threat with a drawn weapon.
    I mentioned this previously:

    the idea was there may be a time when one may be addressing something in front of him, and determines there's a bg at his 6 that needs lead on him rfn while moving out of his way and not waiting to turn the body to address same.

    That could be because you're taking incoming, someone yells a warning like "behind you", etc. It's a skill that puts lead on threat faster than turning to the threat. It gives you a smaller footprint, offline, and shooting near immediately. At that range and probably out to 10 feet, you may not be able to move fast enough to avoid the danger. At 10 feet, a perp rushing you can close to contact in 3/4 second, maybe less. I get that first round off in just about that time frame, from the draw. If the gun is already out and fighting, faster still. My thoughts anyway, I know some are going to not like it and some may find some benefit in the drill. I enjoy exploring the fastest way of lead on threat, but also have to consider moving at the same time or get nailed.

    If that is a threat advancing at that distance [ or maybe a static threat you become aware of and he's got a gun ], moving away, even directly perpendicular to his initial line of fire will very likely not beat his ability to still put lead in you using a smaller arc to track the arc you're using. It's too close from behind, you are way behind the curve.
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    Quote Originally Posted by velo99 View Post
    Azqkr
    If you let BG get that close, you need to work on your SA.
    Yes, I agree. I fully understand the mentality, unfortunately, in the real world we fail to always have enough at times.
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    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    I'm with harry and ...you sweep your feet each time you re-holster.

    serious revision of form needed

    the situation you are training for may better be handled by going to ground

    ...if they are moving up from behind in a manner that defeated your SA (...could happen)
    than to tuck & roll at an angle will accomplish much
    --you are no longer directly in their line of movement
    --you can fire if you still have to but chance favors them to keep running
    as they have lost the element of surprise and seen you have a gun.
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    What does RFN mean?
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