I'm sure I'm not the only person who aims his hand gun this way...

This is a discussion on I'm sure I'm not the only person who aims his hand gun this way... within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; When I am target shooting slowly, I aim my hand guns like usual with front sight centered and leveled with rear sight. When I do ...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 18
Like Tree13Likes

Thread: I'm sure I'm not the only person who aims his hand gun this way...

  1. #1
    Member Array 02R1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    wi
    Posts
    229

    I'm sure I'm not the only person who aims his hand gun this way...

    When I am target shooting slowly, I aim my hand guns like usual with front sight centered and leveled with rear sight. When I do a quick drawing shooting practice, the front sight ( still centered between rear sights) for my hand guns natural sits higher than the rear sights. It's just hard for me to quickly draw and level the front sight to the rear. I always have to remind myself that my ACTUAL point of impact is a few inches higher than what I'm seeing through the sights.

    weird.. anyone else do this too?

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    VIP Member Array pittypat21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,487
    When I just naturally point my Glock, that's what happens - but that's what training is for.

    What do you carry? Is this with a specific gun or just any?
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet."
    -General James Mattis, USMC

  4. #3
    Member Array 02R1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    wi
    Posts
    229
    Quote Originally Posted by pittypat21 View Post
    When I just naturally point my Glock, that's what happens - but that's what training is for.

    What do you carry? Is this with a specific gun or just any?
    i carry a G19 and beretta nano. Have tried with other hand guns and the same thing happens. I feel like I waste too much time trying to line up the sights when doing a quick draw/quick aim. Very hard... i estimated that during a gun battle (self defense), I will not be no more than 5-10 yards away, so I will be about 3-5" inches lower.

  5. #4
    VIP Member
    Array TX expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    3,666
    Quote Originally Posted by 02R1 View Post
    i carry a G19 and beretta nano. Have tried with other hand guns and the same thing happens. I feel like I waste too much time trying to line up the sights when doing a quick draw/quick aim. Very hard... i estimated that during a gun battle (self defense), I will not be no more than 5-10 yards away, so I will be about 3-5" inches lower.
    At 5 yards you could/should probably be point shooting anyway, so you're right that it's wasting time to line up the rears at that distance. 10 yards may be a stretch but that's going to depend on your personal abilities. By 10 yards, I'm allowing a little time for sight alignment. It's still close enough that it doesn't require a full concentrated aim, but I am working with both the front and rears.
    NRA Life Member

    "I don't believe gun owners have rights." - Sarah Brady

  6. #5
    Senior Member
    Array farsidefan1's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    1,058
    Practice solves nearly everything. I used to aim high right to correct for poor trigger pull(anticipation) but practice practice practice. If I do that now I hit high right.
    Typos are for the entertainment of the reader. Don't let it go to your head

  7. #6
    Distinguished Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    1,393
    Quote Originally Posted by farsidefan1 View Post
    [Proper] Practice solves nearly everything...
    There, I fixed it for ya!

  8. #7
    Distinguished Member Array Exacto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    1,613
    Shooting for target accuracy is different than combat or defensive accuracy. Point shooting center of exposed mass is done much quicker than slow aimed target shooting. Even when practicing for defensive accuracy, you have to slow down as distance increases or the size of the target gets smaller, so how you "aim" is dependent on what you are trying to accomplish. At close distances, you might not aim at all and just point shoot. Aiming consist of more than one thing. Sight picture, is the proper alignment of your front sight to your rear sight. The second part would be sight picture, the proper relationship of your properly aligned sights to your target. Practicing both is beneficial. Slow aimed target shooting gives you an opportunity to work on the shooting fundamentals. While good shooting fundamentals should be present when you are practicing defensive accuracy, the target is generally a little more forgiving as to size, or to put it another way, the area your shooting at is larger and can be identified by a hit that significantly impairs your threat to continue his attack. That can be a pretty big area. Target shooting for accuracy, small groups, is a different animal.
    Last edited by Exacto; December 24th, 2013 at 08:40 PM.
    Hodad and 02R1 like this.
    Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunder bolt...... Sun Tzu.

    The supreme art of war is to defeat the enemy without fighting........ Sun Tzu.

  9. #8
    VIP Member
    Array ShooterGranny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Southeast USA
    Posts
    2,141
    Practice with an empty gun a few hundred "draws" - slowly. Do this while standing still. Then do it while moving and suddenly stopping. Then do it while moving. Then, when you get to the point where you are pointing the gun automatically with sights lined up where they should be, you can gradually speed up. If you do it right and do it often enough you should be point shooting AND shooting while aiming with your gun lined up properly. At least that is the way I was taught and it worked for me.

    IMHO too many people try to learn to do things properly while they are doing them fast.

    I know there are a lot of people who think people should be trained to point shoot. That may work for some. Not for me. I had to learn to AIM...........then one day while doing a fast, shoot while moving practice drill at our club, I realized I was point shooting. Golly, gee whiz.
    WrongRecroom and 02R1 like this.
    Getting old was not on my list of "things to do" in the Golden Years!

    ==================

    Talking to each other here is good, but taking action is better.

  10. #9
    VIP Member
    Array SIGP250's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    MO - Rock Ranch
    Posts
    2,241
    Line up the sights but mentally focus on the tip above the dot on the front sight. May seem odd but does work with practice of course.
    If you understand, things are just as they are... If you do not understand, things are just as they are....
    - Zen Saying

  11. #10
    VIP Member
    Array ANGLICO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    I'm the guy next door that is polite, but does not tell you crap.
    Posts
    3,462
    Quote Originally Posted by ShooterGranny View Post
    Practice with an empty gun a few hundred "draws" - slowly. Do this while standing still. Then do it while moving and suddenly stopping. Then do it while moving. Then, when you get to the point where you are pointing the gun automatically with sights lined up where they should be, you can gradually speed up. If you do it right and do it often enough you should be point shooting AND shooting while aiming with your gun lined up properly. At least that is the way I was taught and it worked for me.

    IMHO too many people try to learn to do things properly while they are doing them fast.

    I know there are a lot of people who think people should be trained to point shoot. That may work for some. Not for me. I had to learn to AIM...........then one day while doing a fast, shoot while moving practice drill at our club, I realized I was point shooting. Golly, gee whiz.
    (I have redacted my previous comment). Just use large mags and lots of rounds, you might get lucky!
    Socialism Kills! Time proven, with a very large body count! We are a Constitutional Republic....... not a Democracy, get it correct!

    Don't be mistaken for a Gecko45: http://lonelymachines.org/mall-ninjas/

    Watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14qTdp-Dd30

    ANGLICO Images

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    25,798
    Quote Originally Posted by 02R1 View Post
    It's just hard for me to quickly draw and level the front sight to the rear. I always have to remind myself that my ACTUAL point of impact is a few inches higher than what I'm seeing through the sights.
    Yes, on some handguns I have experienced this. It's my feeling that whatever it is about the balance of the gun is really a mismatch between the basic perfect ergonomics (whether it points naturally) of a handgun versus the one in question. Now and then, I have experienced guns that point nearly perfectly under rapid-fire, but more usually I shoot a gun that varies a bit from the natural aim that slow-fire yields. Can't say whether many other people experience this situation, which you describe. But I have.

    Thoughts ...

    About the most naturally pointing gun I've ever shot is a Browning Hi-Power 9mm, and it was spot-on whether shooting one shot at a time or during rapid-fire. Didn't seem to make any difference. That one aimed and struck the target naturally every time. The Glock 19 is about the next most-natural pointing gun I've shot, and only under really rapid fire does it seem to be off ... but that's almost certainly due to lack of time on the platform, as I don't own one. That said, I've also experienced training being able to override much of this difference. In the early 1990's I shot a Browning BDM 9mm extensively, and it more naturally pointed for slow-fire as opposed to rapid-. But in time it got to feel so natural in the hands that aim felt perfect no matter what I did, and POI was spot-on to that aim.

    So. You can train to shoot a bit higher with that gun, if you want. You can get more practice with it, working through the issue. Or you an find a different gun that doesn't exhibit such a wide distinction between slow-fire and rapid-fire POA/POI. Unless the gun is horribly "off" for you, you ought to be able to work through the problem, with sufficient practice in draw/aim, in firing exercises, and in working out the kinks in whatever it is about the recoil/ergonomic characteristics that are getting in the way of you feeling that proper aim point.
    02R1 likes this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  13. #12
    Distinguished Member Array GlassWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Columbia, SC
    Posts
    1,747
    Quote Originally Posted by 02R1 View Post
    When I am target shooting slowly, I aim my hand guns like usual with front sight centered and leveled with rear sight. When I do a quick drawing shooting practice, the front sight ( still centered between rear sights) for my hand guns natural sits higher than the rear sights. It's just hard for me to quickly draw and level the front sight to the rear. I always have to remind myself that my ACTUAL point of impact is a few inches higher than what I'm seeing through the sights.

    weird.. anyone else do this too?
    It is a very common mistake for people to raise the tip/muzzle of the handgun to find the front sight post first, elevating the barrel of the gun, then bringing the rear sights to line up with it.
    The way to avoid this, is instead ofextending the gun from the holster, raising the firearm as you extend your arms, try this:
    draw the fire arm straight upward, along your bodyso yourstrong side hand is against your pectoral muscle, bringing your support hand into propler grip position, then extend straight outward from the chest to the extended position with a proper stance. This is a faster way to get a proper sight picture and target acquisition, and it is a better way to find your sight picture because it eliminates the urge to raise the barrel and consequently where the gun is pointed if it is discharged, while you look for the front sight post.

    I'm sure this is going to get someone's panties in a knot, but this is how I was taught in numerous combat handgun courses, by multiple instructors. It is both faster, and safer, and on top of that, if you find that you have to suddely shoot retention before you have time to fully extend your arms, the gun is alread body indexed and pointed in the right direction to do so at close range, which also allows you to fire as you extend your arms, making for a faster first and second shot, instead of waiting for full extension in a CQC situation.
    02R1 and farsidefan1 like this.
    I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.

  14. #13
    MJK
    MJK is offline
    Senior Member Array MJK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    St. Louis
    Posts
    821
    You don't need sights inside 5 yards. I have even drawn and fired with my eyes closed while facing the target and achieved good combat accuracy.
    Oldpsufan likes this.
    [T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people. ---Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

  15. #14
    VIP Member
    Array ANGLICO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    I'm the guy next door that is polite, but does not tell you crap.
    Posts
    3,462
    Quote Originally Posted by MJK View Post
    You don't need sights inside 5 yards. I have even drawn and fired with my eyes closed while facing the target and achieved good combat accuracy.
    I mostly only instictive shoot from sound and light now. Aiming? Big guy, little bullet = lots of ammo!
    Socialism Kills! Time proven, with a very large body count! We are a Constitutional Republic....... not a Democracy, get it correct!

    Don't be mistaken for a Gecko45: http://lonelymachines.org/mall-ninjas/

    Watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14qTdp-Dd30

    ANGLICO Images

  16. #15
    Member Array foxytwo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    484
    Quote Originally Posted by pittypat21 View Post
    When I just naturally point my Glock, that's what happens - but that's what training is for.

    What do you carry? Is this with a specific gun or just any?
    The angle of the grip is very important to me, with the glocks I had the same problem, tried the XD pistols and that was the cure for me. I do not have to point the pistol down, it points more like you would point your finger. That is what works for me. I practice point shooting more than using the sights.

    Semper Fi

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

i'm having to place my front sight higher than the rear

Click on a term to search for related topics.