Use of Cover - Crowd It or Stand Off?

This is a discussion on Use of Cover - Crowd It or Stand Off? within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Thought I'd float this question among the few who participate in this sub-forum. Lets say you are using the corner of a concrete wall for ...

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Thread: Use of Cover - Crowd It or Stand Off?

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    Senior Member Array JMB's Avatar
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    Use of Cover - Crowd It or Stand Off?

    Thought I'd float this question among the few who participate in this sub-forum. Lets say you are using the corner of a concrete wall for cover, would you snug up to it or stand off? Please describe your approach as well as any other tactical tips / techniques you would probably employ. I would like to keep it handgun only too.

    Thanks
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    Snug up for the cover and for support of the weapon.
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    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    I have always been taught "Don't Crowd Cover."

    The closer you are to cover, generally, the more of yourself you have to expose to get a shot off.

    Also, lead splatter and/or concrete splatter is much more of a factor if you are too close to your cover.

    Lastly, if you need to move out from behind cover, if you are standing back from it, you can get more momentum going so that by the time you are exposed, you moving at a run. If you crowd cover and try to move, you are moving more slowly when you are first exposed, and thus, you are a much easier target.
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    I was taught the same thing as Badey - don't hug your cover!

    HOWEVER, if the only cover you have is a 6" high street curb: hug, baby, hug!
    Getting old was not on my list of "things to do" in the Golden Years!

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    Distinguished Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
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    Cover is cover whether you are right next to it or eight feet away. Distance generally gives you more options; don't crowd it!
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    Not sure what you mean with your question.

    Standing back a bit from cover such as the corner of a wall makes the angle to your attacker shallower - which may improve the shot you have on him.
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    Distinguished Member Array Exacto's Avatar
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    It depends on the situation. Generally if you hug your cover too closely you have to expose too much of something to defend yourself, like your gun hand, and arm. Not a good idea. Stay back an arms length and don't expose anymore than you have to "let it rain" on your attacker.
    Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunder bolt...... Sun Tzu.

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    don't crowd your cover

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    VIP Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    This is probably something you could test with airsoft or paintball guns.

    First, in some kind of shooting situation, I'd imagine with all the adrenaline and excitement and everything, you probably wouldn't be thinking about angles and cover and such. Most likely there'd be a lot of yelling and ducking and chaos - it'd be a fluid thing.

    Second, if you were around the corner from a shooting threat, probably be good to vamoose. Get as much distance from the other fellow as possible. If you're in some kind of cul-de-sac such that there's nowhere to go, then maybe go low, figure the oppo would be planning on you standing on the other side.

    If you aren't LEO or SWAT or similar, not sure it'd be advisable to be trading shots around corners at all.
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    I would consider the distance of my opponent. If they are close they can change the angle quickly, thus exposing you. If the distance is great enough and the cover is large enough that would be an excellent time to execute your exit strategy.
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    First you need to know the difference between concealment & cover. Concealment will hide you; but won't stop bullets.

    I did a training demonstration outdoors a couple of years ago on moving between cover and concealment positions. Using Airsoft, the shooter placed himself in what he thought was a good ambush position while I moved between various cover & concealment; including outbuildings, trees, autos & heavy equipment. I was able to cover 50+yds and close on the shooter without giving the shooter a clear shot. Each participant took turns as the shooter and as the one moving up to engage.

    It was really a good lesson and the participants learned that if you understand the use of cover that may be available you can stay safe while you move forward to engage; or while you exit the danger area. (I never got closer than 10' to any cover or concealment.) Most of the trainees were amazed that though I appeared to be moving out in the open, I was really always behind cover or concealed from the shooter's line of site.

    (It fun doing stuff that!)

    Another good Airsoft drill I've done several times is placing a sniper in ambush position in a building or somewhere outside and have the participants try to reach an objective (car, safe room etc) without being shot. They know where the objective is and that a shooter is waiting somewhere. But, don't know where the shooter is waiting.


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    Senior Member Array JMB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost1958 View Post
    Absolutely depends on what cover your using. Whos shooting at you and from what angle and elevation. A full sized wall maybe not so much. If your using the front wheels and engine block of vehicle you probably better be tight up to it.
    Thanks Ghost1958, but for this discussion I'd like to keep it simple and stick with the example I provided. Plenty of time to expand the discussion later on.
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    Senior Member Array JMB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shockwave View Post
    This is probably something you could test with airsoft or paintball guns.

    First, in some kind of shooting situation, I'd imagine with all the adrenaline and excitement and everything, you probably wouldn't be thinking about angles and cover and such. Most likely there'd be a lot of yelling and ducking and chaos - it'd be a fluid thing.

    Second, if you were around the corner from a shooting threat, probably be good to vamoose. Get as much distance from the other fellow as possible. If you're in some kind of cul-de-sac such that there's nowhere to go, then maybe go low, figure the oppo would be planning on you standing on the other side.

    If you aren't LEO or SWAT or similar, not sure it'd be advisable to be trading shots around corners at all.
    Lot's of "if's" and "buts" that don't really get to the point of my question. I would suggest anyone serious about their training needs to learn how to use cover.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JMB View Post
    Thanks Ghost1958, but for this discussion I'd like to keep it simple and stick with the example I provided. Plenty of time to expand the discussion later on.
    Post deleted carry on
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