Survive or Win...

Survive or Win...

This is a discussion on Survive or Win... within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; We all talk about the fight and how to survive it. On a personal level I have a problem with the just survive the fight. ...

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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Survive or Win...

    We all talk about the fight and how to survive it. On a personal level I have a problem with the just survive the fight. If you are attacked, thrown down and have the back of your neck stepped on, and you survive as a quadriplegic is that the kind of win we are looking for? For me, NO..

    I think there is a lot of misinformation on the interwebs about just surviving. Do not get me wrong, I do not want to die, but I do not want to live in a state of dependance. Maybe its a Hardware thing, but I believe that if we are going to take self defense seriously, we have to be programed to dominate the fight, not just survive it..We need to program ourselves to use greater violence to win the fight. We have to have the programing in our hard drives to be able to win. It is my opinion that this is done thru life experience or FoF training or both.

    So what do you want, to just survive or to win? I know what I teach my students, but I would like a sample of others views on the subject. I for one do not want to just survive, I want to win and go back to life as normal afterwards...
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    I was just talking about this at the gym with my work out and shooting partner. We are going to upgrade our training. soon
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    In this crazy PC world over-dominating the fight can get you legal trouble.
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    IMO ... paradoxically, the mentality of "just surviving" has no place in situations involving outright survival.


    My goal, if threatened in dire circumstances: To erase the threat as expeditiously and certainly as I'm capable of doing, as the most viable method of ensuring survival and my walking home that night to my loved ones. Very likely, that's going to require utter mercilessness, explosiveness, and violence to the point of turning the deadly threat "off" until it's no longer such a thing.

    The last thing I'd ever to is to approach a violent situation with the minimalist hope and wish to merely survive it if I could. That's tantamount to giving up at the outset, deliberately selecting the worst possible tactic compatible with remaining standing (healthy and whole).


    Have been through a handful of such encounters, in which I was attacked. I left the scene reasonably healthy and whole, which is more than I can say for the assailants in question. May any future violent assault against me end just that way. Absolutely.
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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tag View Post
    In this crazy PC world over-dominating the fight can get you legal trouble.
    Please show a link to a case where this has happened....
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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    Heck with PC, when facing a threat only way is to win fast an decisively. We are not the police we have only the responsibility of defending ourselves an loved ones. Its nice to have sa an stay away from trouble stay away from problematic areas. But if the threat finds you an you believe its them or us end it as fast as you can as decisively as you can than call for his ambulance an police. If you want to give first aid do it. I for one do not want to survive a fight only to contract aids or hepatitis.
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    Senior Member Array CommonCents's Avatar
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    This goes along w/ the PC thinking that you have some mind reading jedi abilities to use just the right amount of force when a thug engages you. This is a gray area but the benefit of the doubt should really go to the victim and not on the perp who initally engaged in the first place.

    Same with someone who intentionally offends you in some way, apologizes and immediately expects you to switch off and instantly forgive them. They get mad at you for not forgiving them as soon as they apologize.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    Please show a link to a case where this has happened....
    Popcorn guy didn't just survive he over-dominated. I prefer to think more simply, in terms of just stopping the threat but then again I'm a pretty simple minded guy.

    I personally don't want to dominate or kill someone, I don't even want to hurt anyone. If I can simply stop the threat and hopefully not get hurt is was a great day for me.
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    How about the fact that emails and other online text sent by an individual can, would be, and has been used in a court of law for both prosectution and defense.

    that said.. My goal is to protect me and my family from danger.
    If this means to chase off what is causing the situation, to remove ourselves from that situation, or the use of deadly force to eliminate the threat, then that is what I will do.
    Each situation is different and my response will be appropriate and continue until I am 100% sure the threat to our safety no longer exists.
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    Interesting thread. Have to admit that I have not thought about it exactly like this. I have always thought the goal was to 'walk away' from the confrontation not just survive, the way you put it this means winning.

    Your follow-up questions indicate the need to be prepared to use overwhelming force and act in an explosive way to attack and dominate any fight. IMO this requires a state of mind and training.

    While I believe I do have the right state of mind when it comes to my family's safety, I must admit that I could still use more self introspection and training to say I am definitely prepared for any scenario.

    Thank you for getting me to think!
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCXDm9 View Post
    Popcorn guy didn't just survive he over-dominated. I prefer to think more simply, in terms of just stopping the threat but then again I'm a pretty simple minded guy.

    I personally don't want to dominate or kill someone, I don't even want to hurt anyone. If I can simply stop the threat and hopefully not get hurt is was a great day for me.
    Winning isn't always a case of opening the biggest can of badness. Popcorn guy could have won at any time, had he disengaged.
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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCXDm9 View Post
    Popcorn guy didn't just survive he over-dominated. I prefer to think more simply, in terms of just stopping the threat but then again I'm a pretty simple minded guy.

    I personally don't want to dominate or kill someone, I don't even want to hurt anyone. If I can simply stop the threat and hopefully not get hurt is was a great day for me.
    We are talking about self defense, not being stupid....
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    We all talk about the fight and how to survive it. On a personal level I have a problem with the just survive the fight. If you are attacked, thrown down and have the back of your neck stepped on, and you survive as a quadriplegic is that the kind of win we are looking for? For me, NO..

    I think there is a lot of misinformation on the interwebs about just surviving. Do not get me wrong, I do not want to die, but I do not want to live in a state of dependance. Maybe its a Hardware thing, but I believe that if we are going to take self defense serious, we have to be programed to dominate the fight, not just survive it..We need to program ourselves to us greater violence to win the fight. We have to have the programing in our hard drives to be able to win. It is my opinion that this is done thru life experience or FoF training or both.

    So what do you want, to just survive or to win. I know what I teach my students, but I would like a sample of others views on the subject. I for one do not want to just survive, I want to win and go back to life as normal afterwards...
    I want to keep my health and my stuff, whatever that involves. Action vs reaction and FonF training has gone a long way to show my weaknesses, help to eliminate them, and make more clear when to relent and when to go full bore. There is a lot more in the bag of tricks than just a hammer, and there is more than one hammer.
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