Question - Ohio - being outed at a police stop

This is a discussion on Question - Ohio - being outed at a police stop within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I was walking out of the mall the other day and a cop car was following me all the way to my car. As I ...

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 31

Thread: Question - Ohio - being outed at a police stop

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array elrey718's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    534

    Question - Ohio - being outed at a police stop

    I was walking out of the mall the other day and a cop car was following me all the way to my car. As I go into my car the cop waited and followed me as I was leaving the mall parking lot. I passed the main entrance and I see the lights go on. I had the buckeye tuck and my seat belt on and I was going like 5 mph. It turned out he was puttin on his lights to get the kids away from the main door.

    Here is my question
    I work in Parmatown Mall and lets just say that SOME (not all) Parma cops don't like young people. So if he was to pull me over and I did tell him I had my permit to carry and he for what ever reason freaked out and asked me to get out of the car. I get out and he puts me on the hood like a convict and as he makes me go on the hood of the car I ask him not to out me that my piece is 4:30 OWB. He grabs my piece and takes it out in front off all of these people. Since I work at the mall how would one react to that? I have to see these people everyday and I will be a mark to everyone. Everyone sooner or later will know that carry. How would you handle this?
    “Do you have any idea how hard it would be to live with yourself if your loved ones were attacked and killed, and you had to stand there helplessly because you were unprepared for that day?”

    Ricardo

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    Member Array newmexiglock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    91
    First, I would suggest making sure that you are complying with the law when transporting your firearm in your vehicle. I have shamelessly taken info from packing.org, which will follow. As I read it, you need to have your firearm holstered and in plain sight or in the glove box. On your persons seems to be a no no. If you touch your gun, it could be real bad for you.

    If you have any questions, I would ask the Parma PD desk Sgt. and explain that you want to comply with the law.

    "Car/Gun law summary
    Date updated: Aug 23, 2005 @ 10:10 pm

    Individuals with a license to carry a concealed handgun may transport a loaded handgun if:

    The firearm is kept in "plain sight" on the person's body.
    The firearm is kept in a locked container that is in "plain sight"
    In a closed, locked glove compartment. (The law does not mention Consoles only Locked Glove Compartment.
    The second biggest flaw with this section of law is that "plain sight" is simply not defined at this time. It is possible that the Ohio Attorney General may determine how to comply with this aspect while carrying. (The first flaw is that you have to remove a concealed firearm and make it visible every time you enter any motor vehicle)

    The Ohio Supreme Court has not defined the term “plain sight” precisely in the context of carrying a concealed handgun. However, in other contexts, courts have generally held that the term “plain sight” is a common sense term that means clearly visible or unobstructed.


    Admin note
    The following was taken from the Publication that all instructors must give when applying for a CCW in Ohio. You must read the entire publication and indicate that you did so when submitting your application to the Sheriff.

    If you are stopped by law enforcement, you must comply with all lawful orders given to you by an officer. You must remain in the vehicle, and you must keep your hands in plain sight when the officer approaches unless you are told to do otherwise by the officer. You may not have contact or attempt to have contact with the handgun unless told to do so by the officer. Merely having, or attempting to have, contact with the handgun is a felony.

    Sec. 2923.16.

    (C) No person shall knowingly transport or have a firearm in a motor vehicle, unless it is unloaded and is carried in one of the following ways:
    (1) In a closed package, box, or case;
    (2) In a compartment that can be reached only by leaving the vehicle;
    (3) In plain sight and secured in a rack or holder made for the purpose;
    (4) In plain sight with the action open or the weapon stripped, or, if the firearm is of a type on which the action will not stay open or which cannot easily be stripped, in plain sight.

    (E) No person who has been issued a license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun under section 2923.125 or 2923.1213 of the Revised Code shall do any of the following:
    (1) Knowingly transport or have a loaded handgun in a motor vehicle unless the loaded handgun either is in a holster and in plain sight on the person's person or it is securely encased by being stored in a closed, locked glove compartment or in a case that is in plain sight and that is locked;"

    Must inform Law Enforcement when Carrying
    Date updated: Aug 23, 2005 @ 10:10 pm

    Ohio's Concealed Carry Law makes it Mandatory to notify a police officer that you are carrying a concealed handgun and have a license to do so.

    This law will apply to you even if you are merely a passenger in a motor vehicle. The officer may or may not ask you to produce your license and may or may not ask to take possession of your firearm for the duration of the traffic stop. The law specifically prohibits the officer from keeping your firearm if you are released.

    Vital: During a traffic stop you should never make any movement that could be considered reaching for or touching your firearm. Besides the common sense reasons, if you are charged with touching your firearm at any time during a traffic stop the charges are a felony.

    Sec. 2923.126.

    (A) If a licensee is the driver or an occupant of a motor vehicle that is stopped as the result of a traffic stop or a stop for another law enforcement purpose and if the licensee is transporting or has a loaded handgun in the motor vehicle at that time, the licensee shall promptly inform any law enforcement officer who approaches the vehicle while stopped that the licensee has been issued a license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun and that the licensee currently possesses or has a loaded handgun; the licensee shall comply with lawful orders of a law enforcement officer given while the motor vehicle is stopped, shall remain in the motor vehicle while stopped, and shall keep the licensee's hands in plain sight while any law enforcement officer begins approaching the licensee while stopped and before the officer leaves, unless directed otherwise by a law enforcement officer; and the licensee shall not knowingly remove, attempt to remove, grasp, or hold the loaded handgun or knowingly have contact with the loaded handgun by touching it with the licensee's hands or fingers, in any manner in violation of division (E) of section 2923.16 of the Revised Code, while any law enforcement officer begins approaching the licensee while stopped and before the officer leaves. If a law enforcement officer otherwise approaches a person who has been stopped for a law enforcement purpose, if the person is a licensee, and if the licensee is carrying a concealed handgun at the time the officer approaches, the licensee shall promptly inform the officer that the licensee has been issued a license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun and that the licensee currently is carrying a concealed handgun."

    here's the link...
    http://www.packing.org/state/ohio/#s...fy_officer_law

    Good luck with doing the legal thing.
    America should have license to carry "children" laws...

    Mooo

  4. #3
    Senior Member Array MR D's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    South Central PA
    Posts
    864
    first thing you inform the officer that you have a CHL and that you are armed and where it is... keep your hands in plain sight at all times...

    it helps to have your CHL, DL, and registration and insurance info ready to...

    if he is uncomfortable, most officers will have you surrender your weapon to them (very carefully), usually they check to see the firearm first, and many do not require this.

    they give you back your firearm after the stop. (unless you are arrested for something like wearing your gun in a manner that prevents him from seeing it... concealed, or felony fondling - i.e. touching you firearm in the presence of the officer without being instructed to )

    if you are ordered out of your vehicle and searched... do what you are told! Check http://www.ohioccw.org/ (Ohioans for concealed carry) they have been one of the grassroots orgs to help us get HB12 and now 347 passed.... and great forums to answer Ohio CHL laws

    the new rules go into effect on the 15th of March
    Last edited by MR D; December 30th, 2006 at 09:54 PM. Reason: add info

  5. #4
    Lead Moderator
    Array rocky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    15,852
    Follow officers instructions. If you were stopped for no reason, you can always lodge a complaint later. I don't think most PD will give you trouble if you have a CCW permit.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

  6. #5
    Administrator
    Array SIXTO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    19,669

    answer

    Heres a answer from an Ohio LEO to your hypothetical question...

    First, why in the world would a P.O. pull you out of your car knowing that your armed in a crowded mall parking lot? Before he approaches, most likely he already knows that the registered owner of that car is a CCW holder. I would not put myself in that tactical disadvantage, never mind endangering the surrounding public. There are plenty of techniques we use to deal with this situation, this is not one of them.

    Second, any officer worth the amount of tin in his badge will not freak out because of your CCW. When approaching a car on a tstop, I assume there is at least one gun in the car, ccw or not. If I do not approach this way, I am not doing my job proper. If someone tells me they are armed, its a good indication they mean me no harm. Someone who wants to shoot me is not going to tell me they are armed.

    Third, you will never be asked to leave your vehicle unless there is something else at play.

    Fourth, Parma cops don't have anything against young people; but cops do keep closer tabs on those who tend to break the law more often than others.

    How would I handle it if your scenario did happen? See Rocky's post.

  7. #6
    Moderator
    Array buckeye .45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    7,611
    I had a minor wreck the other week in SW Ohio, and when a police officer arrived I simply informed him that I had a CHL and where my weapon was, and responded to his instructions to secure the weapon in my vehicle. I am young (21), and really didn't experience anything unusual, although the officer did look a little surprised when I informed him.

    They know about your CHL if they run the plates and the vehicle is registered to you, but you still must inform. I don't think they are going to make a big deal out of it.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
    NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor

  8. #7
    VIP Member Array NCHornet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Mt Airy, NC
    Posts
    2,158
    I have been pulled over once in the 8 years since having my CCW. When the officer approached I told him I was armed and had a CCW permit. He asked where the gun was and I told him and that was it. He did give me a ticket though, but never said anything about the firearm, or ask to see it.
    I will have to ask one of the LEO's at church to see if it shows are their in car computer that I have a CCW permit.
    When Seconds Count, The Cops Are Just Minutes Away!!
    Carry On!
    NCHornet

  9. #8
    Member Array Linda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    central Ohio
    Posts
    379
    Quote Originally Posted by newmexiglock View Post
    On your persons seems to be a no no.
    That is incorrect! One of the 3 ways to properly carry in your car is "holstered, on your persons person". Meaning, you can not holster it and put in on the seat. Let alone, having it holstered and attached to your seat belt. It must be holstered on your body in some form.
    Member of the National Rifle Association's Board of Directors
    www.BuckeyeFirearms.org Buckeye Firearms Association Central OH Chair
    NRA Instructor/CCW Instructor/Realtor
    2009 NRA Sybil Ludington Women's Freedom Award Recipient

  10. #9
    Member Array newmexiglock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    91
    Quote Originally Posted by Linda View Post
    That is incorrect! One of the 3 ways to properly carry in your car is "holstered, on your persons person".
    Linda,

    I as I have read over what was quoted, you seem to have left off some very important detail,

    "(E) No person who has been issued a license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun under section 2923.125 or 2923.1213 of the Revised Code shall do any of the following:
    (1) Knowingly transport or have a loaded handgun in a motor vehicle unless the loaded handgun either is in a holster AND IN PLAIN SIGHT on the person's person or it is securely encased by being stored in a closed, locked glove compartment or in a case that is in plain sight and that is locked..."

    An omission of the bolded italicized phrase could very well get a person in hot water. I wonder, how PLAIN SIGHT is actually interpreted. Any help, here?
    America should have license to carry "children" laws...

    Mooo

  11. #10
    Moderator
    Array buckeye .45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    7,611
    Plain sight is usually taught in Ohio that the part of the holster/weapon have to be unconvered, this is where the "Buckeye tuck" comes from. For me that means that I tuck my cover garment behind my Crossbreed IWB, which allows the grip of my 1911 to be in "plain sight"
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
    NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor

  12. #11
    Member Array M1911's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    137
    Second, any officer worth the amount of tin in his badge will not freak out because of your CCW. When approaching a car on a tstop, I assume there is at least one gun in the car, ccw or not. If I do not approach this way, I am not doing my job proper. If someone tells me they are armed, its a good indication they mean me no harm. Someone who wants to shoot me is not going to tell me they are armed.
    Not all police officers are as wise.

    I know one person here in MA who informed a police officer that he was carrying when he was stopped on a minor traffic violation. The officer removed him from the vehicle, cuffed and stuffed him, called for backup, etc...

  13. #12
    Senior Member Array elrey718's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    534
    thank you guys and ladies for all of you comments. i gues i am a lil worried because I have yet to be pulled over with my weapon on me. Even the thought of gettin pulled over with my weapon gets me a lil jittery. I donr know why but it does and until it happens I guess I will be like tht.
    “Do you have any idea how hard it would be to live with yourself if your loved ones were attacked and killed, and you had to stand there helplessly because you were unprepared for that day?”

    Ricardo

  14. #13
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    south Florida
    Posts
    3,168
    I've been carrying since '94 or '95 or so... and in the time between then and now I've been pulled over hmmm... probably 4 or 5 times (nothing major, usually just your typical unlucky guy passing a speed trap). I have never informed the cop pulling me over that I was armed, and have never even been asked. I also was not ever carrying in such a way as the cop was going to see an inadvertently displayed gun, either.

    There are advocates for each side -- and I guess this is relevant mostly just in the states that don't require you to inform a cop that you are CCWing. I am an advocate for the keeping-your-mouth-shut side: it has never caused me a problem, and I have no way of knowing what problems I might have been given if I had volunteered, "Oh officer, I have a gun!"

    In Florida, there is no requirement to tell a cop that you are CCWing. I have no certainty about whether the cops are informed that the vehicle registrant has a CCW license by running a license plate, either. Maybe they are, maybe they are not. I don't know how useful that is, anyway; the vehicle may be registered to the Mr., but driven by the Mrs. who doesn't carry, right? Could be that the Mr. has the license, but doesn't carry much. And then it could be the criminal who has no license, is a violent felon on parole, and does have a gun (that he ain't sayin' squat about until it's being fired at the officer).

  15. #14
    Member Array Maklioso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    20
    Here in Colorado, we're not required to notify the officer that we're carrying, but I like the idea just because it lets him know that I'm not some average Joe--I've taken the time to take handgun safety courses and I've gone through some pretty significant background checks, (through CBI/FBI and Utah). I want the officer to feel comfortable knowing that I prefer to live a crime-free life, (you know, except for those dang speed limits ), and I don't need to be treated like a criminal.

  16. #15
    Senior Member Array cagueits's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Puerto Rico
    Posts
    911
    There is not a lot you can do at that moment. After the fact, you find yourself an attorney to file a 42 USC Sec 1983 suit, then get ready to receive $$$ if your case is solid (minus the 33% that attorneys usually charge).

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Police: Felon Bought Rifle To Stop Alien Invasion
    By WhoWeBePart1 in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: July 8th, 2010, 08:50 AM
  2. St. Louis police officer shot 6-8 times during traffic stop
    By grady in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: May 28th, 2010, 07:30 AM
  3. Mom: Police Told Daughter To Stop Calling Before Murder-Suicide
    By Janq in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 41
    Last Post: February 24th, 2008, 08:56 PM
  4. LEO traffic stop and getting "outed"
    By NRATodd in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 54
    Last Post: January 29th, 2008, 09:30 PM
  5. Replies: 33
    Last Post: October 10th, 2007, 10:45 PM

Search tags for this page

ohio ccw police stop
,

published news upcoming news submit a new story groups 2008 ohio attorney general

,

published news upcoming news submit a new story groups carrying a concealed weapon in florida

,
published news upcoming news submit a new story groups ccw ohio attorney general
,
published news upcoming news submit a new story groups concealed weapons laws
,

published news upcoming news submit a new story groups concealed weapons permit utah

,
published news upcoming news submit a new story groups employee background check
,

published news upcoming news submit a new story groups florida concealed weapons license

,

published news upcoming news submit a new story groups for ohio attorney general

,
published news upcoming news submit a new story groups national concealed weapon permit
,
published news upcoming news submit a new story groups off topic question
,
published news upcoming news submit a new story groups ruger arms
,

published news upcoming news submit a new story groups status of florida concealed weapons application

,

published news upcoming news submit a new story groups utah concealed weapons permit

,
published news upcoming news submit a new story groups why some people are not lucky
Click on a term to search for related topics.