Knife vs. Gun..

Knife vs. Gun..

This is a discussion on Knife vs. Gun.. within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Found this interesting. Zero is bouncing off the X and is actually winning in a head to head with a knife. There conclusion is The ...

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  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Knife vs. Gun..

    Found this interesting. Zero is bouncing off the X and is actually winning in a head to head with a knife. There conclusion is

    The 21ft rule does not apply to skilled gun fighters. With training you have a chance in close quarters up to about 6-8ft away.
    I found the above statement encouraging. I guess the proof is in the pudding..Here is the video..

    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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    Distinguished Member Array SCXDm9's Avatar
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    I've always wondered who would stand still and be stabbed............... however, drawing on the sound of someone running from behind seems like a good way to shoot a jogger.
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    If thats a skilled gunfighter, I have to practice A LOT MORE, or I will be in deep doo doo

    Cool moves and advice though. Thanks for posting it
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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCXDm9 View Post
    I've always wondered who would stand still and be stabbed............... however, drawing on the sound of someone running from behind seems like a good way to shoot a jogger.
    I am assuming you heard him say CONTEXT...Its a Drill....
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

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    Distinguished Member Array SCXDm9's Avatar
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    I guess I should have added a sarcasm face thingy...

    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    I am assuming you heard him say CONTEXT...Its a Drill....
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    Things gun forums have taught me:
    -Some people shoot guns other "run" them.
    -I don't dislike Glocks but often dislike Glock owners.
    -Open carry is to a handgun as bluetooth is to a cell phone!
    -Simple math can deliver posts per day... some gun forum members need to get out more!!!

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    Distinguished Member Array DingBat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuvMyPX4 View Post
    If thats a skilled gunfighter, I have to practice A LOT MORE, or I will be in deep doo doo

    Cool moves and advice though. Thanks for posting it
    not all of it has to come from NAVY SEAL tactical school either.

    notice the textbook Judo Break-Fall at 9:17

    Notice him talking about "using his legs" around 8:28 & 9:20-- straight Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu right there... "the open guard"

    9:51 the knife guy talks about changing levels.. welcome to collegiate wrestling 101...

    none of that stuff is rocket science, maybe thinking outside the NRA Pistol course box...
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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCXDm9 View Post
    I guess I should have added a sarcasm face thingy...
    That would have helped...
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    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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    Always get off the X when confronted with a knife. You will get cut if you don't.
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    Senior Member Array wdbailey's Avatar
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    The thing to keep in mind is that Zero isn't just a skilled gunfighter, he's a skilled fighter all around. The man has some moves!

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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wdbailey View Post
    The thing to keep in mind is that Zero isn't just a skilled gunfighter, he's a skilled fighter all around. The man has some moves!
    Exactly, I think the video gives a new perspective on just that...Being a fighter...
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    Senior Member Array CR Williams's Avatar
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    Good concept. I will quibble with the idea of going to ground because breakfalls or rolls on open ground or in urban terrain offer a greatly increased possibility of damage that might inhibit or prevent your carrying out or continuing a defense. Besides that, if there is more than one attacker, you have just removed your mobility and ability to continue to maneuver evasively. I would suggest breaking to left or right, oblique angles included, rather than going to ground in most cases.
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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CR Williams View Post
    Good concept. I will quibble with the idea of going to ground because breakfalls or rolls on open ground or in urban terrain offer a greatly increased possibility of damage that might inhibit or prevent your carrying out or continuing a defense. Besides that, if there is more than one attacker, you have just removed your mobility and ability to continue to maneuver evasively. I would suggest breaking to left or right, oblique angles included, rather than going to ground in most cases.
    Each situation being different, I think its more about opportunity and what is presented to you in the fight. Going to the ground in an urban environment is the least of my concerns if being attacked. Changing the plane that your attacker is on, is a very good concept, if that involves the ground, then I am hitting the dirt....
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    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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    Distinguished Member Array DingBat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CR Williams View Post
    Good concept. I will quibble with the idea of going to ground because breakfalls or rolls on open ground or in urban terrain offer a greatly increased possibility of damage that might inhibit or prevent your carrying out or continuing a defense. Besides that, if there is more than one attacker, you have just removed your mobility and ability to continue to maneuver evasively. I would suggest breaking to left or right, oblique angles included, rather than going to ground in most cases.
    you know, I was kind of thinking the same thing. That is DEFINATELY a concept they teach in martial arts.

    ...but... when Zero is on the ground in the butt-scoop position, he has a gun, and anyone who has done any type of ground movement drills knows he can quickly turn 360 degress like that. so even if his buddy is coming to kick you in the head, you just turn and shoot him...

    not saying this as a concrete 100% thing, but I think having a firearm reduces the risk significantly in this.

    as for hurting yourself going down.. that's certainly true, but proper break-falls and barrel rolls negate most everything except the biggest rocks. I've spent a lot of time rolling on a bunch of different surfaces, and a hardwood floor is nasty---at first--- and then bcomes like nothing, and then it's concrete and asphalt you don't want to go down on, and then its kinda like, i'll roll away from the broken glass and/or big boulders....

    and anyone who has rode enough dirtbikes knows just falling down on gravel is nothing.... wipe your 250 going around a turn and a barrel roll is a walk in the park....
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    Senior Member Array CR Williams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DingBat View Post
    you know, I was kind of thinking the same thing. That is DEFINATELY a concept they teach in martial arts.

    ...but... when Zero is on the ground in the butt-scoop position, he has a gun, and anyone who has done any type of ground movement drills knows he can quickly turn 360 degress like that. so even if his buddy is coming to kick you in the head, you just turn and shoot him...

    not saying this as a concrete 100% thing, but I think having a firearm reduces the risk significantly in this.

    as for hurting yourself going down.. that's certainly true, but proper break-falls and barrel rolls negate most everything except the biggest rocks. I've spent a lot of time rolling on a bunch of different surfaces, and a hardwood floor is nasty---at first--- and then bcomes like nothing, and then it's concrete and asphalt you don't want to go down on, and then its kinda like, i'll roll away from the broken glass and/or big boulders....

    and anyone who has rode enough dirtbikes knows just falling down on gravel is nothing.... wipe your 250 going around a turn and a barrel roll is a walk in the park....
    Rolling on a sidewalk as Zero did is probably contra-indicated in that you won't stay on the sidewalk for the whole of the role unless going directly forward or back. Sure, people do rolls on concrete. Do they do them on concrete that includes a curb or a fetch up against the side of a building? Ditto for alleyways. Maybe in a parking lot, but watch out for fetching up against cars and such. Big boulders? You can get your defensive capability inhibited by a pebble if it hits in the right place as you're putting your weight on it in the roll or breakfall. And once you are focused on the oncoming attacker, will you take the time to survey the ground before you go down on it? Not convinced that will happen.

    The 'ground' in almost every area I can think of is not smooth or predictable in nature enough to want to get there by roll or breakfall. If it was, why is it said by so many that the one thing you should avoid at nearly all cost in a fight is going to ground or being knocked down? Especially when a displacement on foot will get you the same kind of change of plane while retaining your ability to a) open distance, b) change angle, c) avoid the attacker's own change of direction.

    Okay, he's got a gun on the ground. He starts shooting at the first attacker. The others are still coming. He can't stack, can't maneuver to put them against each other as they maneuver against him.

    It is an option. It is demonstrably not the best one. I have to wonder why they did not illustrate others.

    Perhaps, Harryball, going to 'ground' in a urban environment should be more than the least of your concerns in that it's not ground you're going to in urban terrain. It is something that will not be as forgiving as dirt by a long shot when you hit it. That, and the release of maneuver options does not make the idea of deliberately going down commend itself to me.
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    Distinguished Member Array DingBat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CR Williams View Post
    Rolling on a sidewalk as Zero did is probably contra-indicated in that you won't stay on the sidewalk for the whole of the role unless going directly forward or back. Sure, people do rolls on concrete. Do they do them on concrete that includes a curb or a fetch up against the side of a building? Ditto for alleyways. Maybe in a parking lot, but watch out for fetching up against cars and such. Big boulders? You can get your defensive capability inhibited by a pebble if it hits in the right place as you're putting your weight on it in the roll or breakfall. And once you are focused on the oncoming attacker, will you take the time to survey the ground before you go down on it? Not convinced that will happen.

    The 'ground' in almost every area I can think of is not smooth or predictable in nature enough to want to get there by roll or breakfall. If it was, why is it said by so many that the one thing you should avoid at nearly all cost in a fight is going to ground or being knocked down? Especially when a displacement on foot will get you the same kind of change of plane while retaining your ability to a) open distance, b) change angle, c) avoid the attacker's own change of direction.

    Okay, he's got a gun on the ground. He starts shooting at the first attacker. The others are still coming. He can't stack, can't maneuver to put them against each other as they maneuver against him.

    It is an option. It is demonstrably not the best one. I have to wonder why they did not illustrate others.

    Perhaps, Harryball, going to 'ground' in a urban environment should be more than the least of your concerns in that it's not ground you're going to in urban terrain. It is something that will not be as forgiving as dirt by a long shot when you hit it. That, and the release of maneuver options does not make the idea of deliberately going down commend itself to me.
    I actually agree that going to ground is not a first option. in any situation.

    but... "You can get your defensive capability inhibited by a pebble if it hits in the right place as you're putting your weight on it in the roll or breakfall.
    "
    <--- sorry, that is patently false... now, if you're out of shape and half-hazardly throw yourself to the ground, then yes, I would say you're correct. But anyone with a modicum of experience in ground fighting, or even a take-down heavy martial art like Judo or Wrestling or BJJ is not going to get put out of a fight because of a pebble on the ground, no way, no how. as I said earlier, I have done this, many, may times. I have wrestled my idiot cousins on 1 inch gravel. I have played the take-down game with my Marine brother in law in his driveway. and played whos the better BBJ guy with him on just about every surface you can imagine, except broken glass, and while painfull and distracting, I will gladly roll over a rock to not get stabbed in the throat.

    As you say it's AN option, not THE option, but dismissing it because of a pebble is folly.
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