Training dedicated to the Las Vegas shooting.

Training dedicated to the Las Vegas shooting.

This is a discussion on Training dedicated to the Las Vegas shooting. within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hello everyone. I open this thread as a follow-up to my post on the recent shooting in Los Vegas costing the lives of two police ...

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Thread: Training dedicated to the Las Vegas shooting.

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Secret Spuk's Avatar
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    Training dedicated to the Las Vegas shooting.

    Hello everyone. I open this thread as a follow-up to my post on the recent shooting in Los Vegas costing the lives of two police Officers and one CC'r.

    I'd ask the mods to help keep this on track and not go off into a food fight over some points of view. I'm not looking for critical comments on Mr Wilcox or the two Officers.

    Thanks to anyone participating.


    OK I'll open the show... I'd like to ask our resident trainers if this kind of material should be included in a training program, If so at what level of training.


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    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    Somebody walks into the store and starts putting rounds into the ceiling.

    1.) I'm not going to approach him and give up real estate I already own walking into the unknown. (My job as a Civilian is not to arrest or confront its to protect my backside)
    2.) Somebody threatening with grave bodily harm/death should get a little medicine maybe a couple Pb prescription pills, with added Cu as a bonding agent. They don't need to be reasoned with.

    In all honesty the cops well there really is no amount of training for what happened to them. The only solution would be separate from everybody except other cops, only eat with cops, only hang out with cops, only do everything with cops. The problem is community policing goes down the drain and we get a real "US vs. Them".
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

    Its not about guns...Its about Freedom!

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    Senior Member Array CommonCents's Avatar
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    I think its tough to do this now before knowing all the facts other than give ideas on a similar scenario/situation, especially with respect to the CC citizens actions. God bless his soul.

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    Based on what I have read, with much more to be revealed (or not), Mr. Wilcox confronted the immediate threat instead of stopping it. With the adrenaline dump he undoubtedly experienced, he quite possibly went to tunnel vision and auditory exclusion, as well. It is hard enough to engage two assailants when aware of both, but fatal when the first indication of the second one is the shot they just fired.
    The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody had decided not to see.
    Ayn Rand

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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Check the surroundings. Evaluate the situation. I am sure we will here more of that in this thread.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

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    Member Array GatorGuy407's Avatar
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    I don't know of fine details of either of shootings but really anything less than a video and we are all just speculating. For the cops death I will assume that the guys walked straight over to the cops and then shot them. The only that would have given them a since would be some top notch spidey senses. One specific subset of SA is the ability to read people. You have to try to discern their intentions without them telling you. In the cops case, they might have noticed these two people laser focused on them. Any cop needs to be highly suspicious of that behavior. There are also certain 'tells' when they are psyching themselves up for violence. Such a target stare or thousand yard stare. Clinching fists. Rubbing their head. Taking an aggressive stance. Shaking their head. Of course the face can give a million clues.

    As for the CCW who died, the only real way to had given him self a better chance would be to hang back a second or two l9nger evaluate the scene, possibly take a better defensive stance and then act with extreme violence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Check the surroundings. Evaluate the situation. I am sure we will here more of that in this thread.
    Train and learn to do it very quickly, while moving. The surroundings checks have to be 360.
    The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody had decided not to see.
    Ayn Rand

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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Secret Spuk asked:
    OK I'll open the show... I'd like to ask our resident trainers if this kind of material should be included in a training program, If so at what level of training.
    On any given day someone can be taken out by an ambush, Police are no exception. One of the officers would have had to have eyes in the back of his head to even notice a threat. In most classes, Conceal carry classes especially, I believe people are given a false sense of security, why, because of situations like this.

    Living in level 5 is not good IMO, you can try it, but I am sure it will dry you crazy if you do. Training might help, but even a full fledged ninja can get shot in the back.....
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    On any given day someone can be taken out by an ambush, Police are no exception. One of the officers would have had to have eyes in the back of his head to even notice a threat. In most classes, Conceal carry classes especially, I believe people are given a false sense of security, why, because of situations like this.

    Living in level 5 is not good IMO, you can try it, but I am sure it will dry you crazy if you do. Training might help, but even a full fledged ninja can get shot in the back.....
    Police are probably more likely to be murdered from ambush than a typical CCW'er. As an odd, but related thought, for many years, my wife and I sat beside each other in the booth at restaurants. Once I started carrying, that ended. We have 360 observation, even though she isn't armed.
    The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody had decided not to see.
    Ayn Rand

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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Police are probably more likely to be murdered from ambush than a typical CCW'er. As an odd, but related thought, for many years, my wife and I sat beside each other in the booth at restaurants. Once I started carrying, that ended. We have 360 observation, even though she isn't armed.
    Even with 360 degree observation, we are still behind the curve, but I do understand where you are coming from....
    TVJ and gatorbait51 like this.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

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    Senior Member Array Lotus222's Avatar
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    While eating, I'm sure we would all love to sit with our backs to the wall and faces to the entrance/exits. Cops should, especially. I don't know what bearing that would have had on this situation, though.
    gatorbait51 and hek1620 like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    Even with 360 degree observation, we are still behind the curve, but I do understand where you are coming from....
    True. I recall that in the Washington shooting, where four officers were executed, two were fatally wounded before anyone could have possibly reacted. The other two were down scant seconds later. As a follow-up to a later thought, two of them were on their laptops. I never do is use a laptop or hand-held device in public. No earbuds, either, ever. It is hard to know if distractions or lack of attentiveness was a factor prior to these officers being shot.
    Secret Spuk and gatorbait51 like this.
    The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody had decided not to see.
    Ayn Rand

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    Member Array GatorGuy407's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    On any given day someone can be taken out by an ambush, Police are no exception. One of the officers would have had to have eyes in the back of his head to even notice a threat. In most classes, Conceal carry classes especially, I believe people are given a false sense of security, why, because of situations like this.

    Living in level 5 is not good IMO, you can try it, but I am sure it will dry you crazy if you do. Training might help, but even a full fledged ninja can get shot in the back.....
    That is what his partner was for. You say on the one hand that people are given a false sense of security and then follow it up with saying that you can't live at a level 5. These kind of situations are rare. Just like with mass shootings. They do get the press and attention but people shouldn't be going out of their way preparing for them other than learning skills which can help in other situations as well.

    IMO, the biggest take away from both of these situations is situation analysis and learning to do it as quickly and efficiently as possibly.
    TSiWRX and gatorbait51 like this.

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    The same applies to this incident, as with others . . . It never plays out the way you think it will.

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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GatorGuy407 View Post
    That is what his partner was for. You say on the one hand that people are given a false sense of security and then follow it up with saying that you can't live at a level 5. These kind of situations are rare. Just like with mass shootings. They do get the press and attention but people shouldn't be going out of their way preparing for them other than learning skills which can help in other situations as well.

    IMO, the biggest take away from both of these situations is situation analysis and learning to do it as quickly and efficiently as possibly.
    People coming out of their carry classes are under a false sense of security. Why, well, they now have a gun, and can now carry it. When at any point in time someone could come up on them and stab or shoot them. An ambush is almost impossible to defend against. Now to the level 5 comment. I am making the assumption you know what that is.

    living in level 5 will dry you crazy. It is not possible to live like that, hence, the reason these officers were ambushed. Whether or not these situations are rare, they do happen. When they do, I would rather be trained, then not. Sometimes people can make a difference in the outcome of a situation like this. I would rather be an asset to society, than a liability...

    Remember the Carry permit holder in Oregon....IMO he saved lives...
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

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