Did he just say Point shooting!...Gasp!

Did he just say Point shooting!...Gasp!

This is a discussion on Did he just say Point shooting!...Gasp! within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; In a perfect situation you would never even have to pull your CCW. Unfortunately there is no such thing as a perfect situation. You might ...

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Thread: Did he just say Point shooting!...Gasp!

  1. #1
    Member Array bombbuster72's Avatar
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    Did he just say Point shooting!...Gasp!

    In a perfect situation you would never even have to pull your CCW. Unfortunately there is no such thing as a perfect situation.

    You might not have the luxury of getting a sight picture. Thankfully, with practice, you can still effectively engage a close attacker.



  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    I'd have to say some good some bad info there. As to point shooting that's pretty much what I do with my EDC.
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    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

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    Senior Member Array Brent95's Avatar
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    Some may find it good,some may find it bad.
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    VIP Member Array Easy8's Avatar
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    Its definitely what I would do if close range attack, I would draw shoot from close retention aiming for lower abdomen for first shot so I do not hit left hand using to either defend from strike or striking eyes, face or pushing off once can step back bring in left hand while continuing to shoot till threat is gone.
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    Distinguished Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
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    I notice he doesn't say anything about a combat crouch and stepping off the X as you initiate fire as the Fairbarin/ FBI system teaches. He does mention it but only after shooting.

    As a side note, I just re-read Quick Or Dead by William L. Cassidy. The book treats with the cyclic evolution of point shooting and aimed fire. He has some very interesting obsevations about how we tend to "discover" point shooting in times of unrest and then aimed shooting gains ascendance during times of peace. Great info on Fairbairn, Sykes, Applegate, et al.

    Did you know that Fairbairn pioneered the "Fun House" shoot/ no shoot training concept back in his Shanghai days? He even had pop out targets.

    And now, back to your regularly scheduled thread!
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    My issue is that it doesn't provide any real thoughts on movement. I am sure that some of our instructors will be along shortly to provide expert commentary, but I have been taught that if you are being attacked at that close of a range, you most likely want to add an element of lateral movement to your response to get or keep distance from the attacker. We see this in FOF drills. He mentions it very briefly at the end, but it is only in passing.
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    Member Array Orangeman's Avatar
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    Some of the best defensive handgun training I received was from an instructor who taught the "zipper" as quarter hip, half hip and full extension but as strong-hand only. He would also call out lateral moves of "left" or "right" and we would have to step that direction, then draw and fire at the target about four feet away. We continued to fire at the head until the mag was empty.
    I must have gone through at least 15 10-round mags as he sought to build that muscle memory on that skill alone.
    It's something I still practice at at the range because the zipper is very effective at close range -- devastating, but effective.
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    The pen may be mightier than the sword, but a .45 caliber sword on the right hip can come in pretty handy sometime.

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    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    Maybe I should go into a little more as to what I see good and bad.

    The zipper is one thing I like. Not sure you have to go to a two handed grip. I can do the zipper both one and two handed. I would also not be likely to just stand there in one spot flat footed while it's all happening. I'd be getting off the X, moving off centerline either forward or backwards. I also don't know that I like his way of getting the gun into the fight to start with. I think if I was the BG he'd be shoot before he could get his gun into play. He's act of drawing looks to much like a drawstroke not a i'm getting my wallet type move.
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    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

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    I would re-title it "How To Fire From Retention Without the Retention". Drawing and leaving it out in space like that will get the gun stuffed very easily.
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    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    I would re-title it "How To Fire From Retention Without the Retention". Drawing and leaving it out in space like that will get the gun stuffed very easily.
    Better to just give them your stuff... It's not worth dying over
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    Quote Originally Posted by TX expat View Post
    Better to just give them your stuff... It's not worth dying over
    If those are my only two options, absolutely.
    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
    William T. Sherman

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    If those are my only two options, absolutely.
    It's the smart play statistically!
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    Quote Originally Posted by TX expat View Post
    It's the smart play statistically!
    Seriously, I personally find the technique of firing from retention shown in this video to be poor.
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    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Seriously, I personally find the technique of firing from retention shown in this video to be poor.
    I'm sure I'd agree. After the first video I decided that there was, most likely, not going to be anything learned from any subsequent videos, so I haven't bothered to hit 'play' on this one. I could, I suppose, but I trust you well enough to take your opinion and go with that.
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    Senior Member Array jmf552's Avatar
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    Two things I noticed. Bombbuster72 intro'ed the video saying it was "about shooting at something without necessarily seeing what you're shooting at." I'm not sure that's what he meant to say. I hope no one is shooting without seeing what they're shooting at!

    Second, I know this is about practice and gaining muscle memory. In a real fight, things are what they are, but hopefully the good practice kicks in when the chips are down. That last tactic he showed with one hand up while drawing and firing would be considered an unsafe move at the NRA Range and in the courses that I've taken there. They preach that in practice, the non-firing hand should never get closer to the target than a drawn weapon. They teach a similar move, but the hand gets pulled back as the gun comes out, like a push-pull. I know his hand is way high and out of the way in the video and he has a lot of training, but our instructor said he's seen people miss the target entirely from arm's distance away! A noob could potentially take one in the hand trying that move.

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