Become a Certified Firearms Instructor.

Become a Certified Firearms Instructor.

This is a discussion on Become a Certified Firearms Instructor. within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; GET CREDIBILITY FOR WHAT YOU ALREADY KNOW! If you know your way around handguns and would like to become certified to teach the NRA Basic ...

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  1. #1
    VIP Member
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    Become a Certified Firearms Instructor.

    GET CREDIBILITY FOR WHAT YOU ALREADY KNOW!

    If you know your way around handguns and would like to become certified to teach the NRA Basic Pistol and Home Firearm Safety course, this is for you. This provides you, the instructor, the ability to teach the NRA Basic Pistol and Basic Home Firearm Safety courses which is recognized in the state of Virginia for the VA Concealed handgun permit.

    NRA Pistol & Home Firearm Safety Instructor course - $300.00.

    Pre-registration/deposit is required.

    Class size is limited.

    Dates/times - 0800 (8am) - 1700 (5pm), Saturday, 3/10/07 and Sunday, 3/11/07.
    Location - NRA Headquarters, Auditorium. Look here for further information: http://www.nrahq.org/education/trai...tate=VA&Type=IT

    Register with Andy Lander at alander@nrahq.org or by calling 703.267.1422
    Last edited by Rob99VMI04; March 6th, 2007 at 02:20 PM.
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

    Its not about guns...Its about Freedom!


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array PaulG's Avatar
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    +1 for Rob99VMI04

    I took the "train-a-thon" from the Northern Virginia Training Counselors thru Piedmont NRA Instructors several years ago. I got the certification to teach:

    Basic Pistol (including First Steps)
    Home Firearm Safety
    Personal Protection in the Home

    and also became certified as a Range Safety Officer

    All four for only $300 and four days in class.

    I don't know if they plan anything like this in the future, but knowing what I know now, I think $300 for just the Basic Pistol Course certification is well worth the money.

    You know what they say, the best way to learn something is to teach it. Teaching Basic Pistol is a GREAT way to keep reinforcing the your own safety training.
    fortiter in re, suaviter in modo (resolutely in action, gently in manner).

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    Someguys with me in the Training Department are working on a Personal Protection Outside the home class probably for the summer time. We already have one of the lawyers here at NRA lined up to do the legal section. We are hurting on trying to find a range for all the shooting. We have to do the Basic class first but then we are going to try and do the instructor course after that.


    Quote Originally Posted by PaulG View Post
    +1 for Rob99VMI04

    I took the "train-a-thon" from the Northern Virginia Training Counselors thru Piedmont NRA Instructors several years ago. I got the certification to teach:

    Basic Pistol (including First Steps)
    Home Firearm Safety
    Personal Protection in the Home

    and also became certified as a Range Safety Officer

    All four for only $300 and four days in class.

    I don't know if they plan anything like this in the future, but knowing what I know now, I think $300 for just the Basic Pistol Course certification is well worth the money.

    You know what they say, the best way to learn something is to teach it. Teaching Basic Pistol is a GREAT way to keep reinforcing the your own safety training.
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

    Its not about guns...Its about Freedom!

  4. #4
    Member Array Flippinstk's Avatar
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    Rob,

    I sent you a email.
    Alex G.
    S&W M&P .45
    Virginia Beach, Va.
    Senior Chief Petty Officer, RETIRED, USN
    Certified NRA Pistol Instructor
    NRA Range Officer

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    Ex Member Array DOGOFWAR01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob99VMI04 View Post
    Someguys with me in the Training Department are working on a Personal Protection Outside the home class probably for the summer time. We already have one of the lawyers here at NRA lined up to do the legal section. We are hurting on trying to find a range for all the shooting. We have to do the Basic class first but then we are going to try and do the instructor course after that.

    Going back to some of your posts in DEC 06, in regard this post above, and another post of yours - that you work for the NRA Training Department in the Training Counselor Program.

    I now understand why you support having a lawyer for the NRA Classes in Personal Protection both Inside and Outside the Home.

    # 1 - you have easy access to a lawyer - one that works for the NRA - which the meets the specific lawyer NRA requirement

    # 2 - the high prices charged for the NRA courses

    # 3 - live near the WDC area


    What is not considered by your posts and the NRA.

    # 1 - not nearly even a majority (51%) all NRA Instructors have any at all access to the specific lawyer type - actual percent would probably at the top be - 20%

    # 2 - high prices charged for the NRA courses in the WDC - do not relate to the real world across the Nation

    # 3 - The NRA Instructor not the NRA is responsible and liable for any information given out orally or written by the lawyer that the NRA Instructor "hires" or "invites" to give the legal portion of the classes

    # 4 - This lawyer requirement is not to protect the Instructor but the NRA itself

    # 5 - Nearly most if not all gun schools across the Nation, do not require or have a lawyer give a legal brief. The classes are about guns - Safety, Operation, and Maintenance (SOM) given by the Firearms Instructors.

    # 6 - NRA classes are suppose to be to train the masses of Citizens of the Nation in SOM, not just the so-called "elite", "well to do",
    those who can travel overnight by vehicle or aircraft, pay high tuition prices

    # 7 - the NRA is not providing a service to the Nation or the Citizens of this Nation, or even the NRA 4,000,000 members by having to charge high dollar for basic classes, requiring lawyers (which are hardly available - the NRA will not even recommend one lawyer in each State to assist with these classes)

    # 8 - the NRA is trying to go down a "dark path" by pushing for National Conceal Carry, which will lead to Federal control of Conceal Carry which will mirror the laws of the most restrictive States or requirements that mirror requirements of Federal Peace Officers or the Armed Pilot Program for the Airlines, which will over ride State laws and rights. The NRA is not considering, we already have a Federal law to cover this area and we need no more laws, we just need to enforce the law on the books - The U.S. Constitution - Bill of Rights - 2 Amendment - "right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed".

    # 9 - Why are you looking for a range ? There is a very nice NRA range by anyone's standard - I seen it and I been in it - the NRA range in the NRA HQ Basement.

    Is there a liability issue or P.C. or what ?

    the NRA HQ will not let you use the range for NRA classes ? the NRA Range in the NRA HQ is on NRA property teaching a NRA class by a NRA Instructor / Training Counselor using a NRA employed lawyer -

    Range's are much easier to find that lawyers !

    # 10 - It is time the NRA dropped the lawyer requirement (which was not required when the first NRA Personal Protection classes came on line) if the NRA is truly a defender of the Second Amendment, if the NRA truly believes in the Second Amendment for the masses of Citizens across this Nation, if the NRA truly wants the NRA classes instructed across the Nation by the NRA's advertised 50,000 NRA Instructors.

    # 11 - Your $300 for NRA Basic Pistol and Home Firearms Safety Instructor classes is very high compared to many parts of the Nation. Most are not trying to make a proift but try to cover their expenses for classes. $ 300 for two courses - $150 each ?

    $300 in many parts of the Nation would buy 4 to 6 classes at $50 to $ 75 each. Two to three times as many classes.

    # 12 - It is time for the NRA to wake up - 4,000,000 members, how many of these have taken any NRA class - how many have taken the Personal Protection or the Personal Protection Inside the Home ?

    for the NRA members are NRA classes ?

    - readily available in their local area or 1 /2 day commute ?

    - are there too many hoops to jump through - for Instructors and Students to complete these classes
    - like lawyers and are the number of hours resonable for the classes
    - why not are Basic Rifle, Basic Shotgun, and Basic Pistol just one day classes
    - 8 to 10 hours instead of the higher number of hours required ?
    - if the NRA thinks there are so many lawyers available to assist with Personal Protection classes - then why not does the NRA not publish a list of these lawyers who have volunteered to assist with these classes - or at least just charge a reasonable fee

    # 13 - The NRA needs to understand the Nation responsibility that they have assumed over the last more than 100 years - then apply the same to the requirements for NRA classes for both Instructors and Students - it would great for this Nation and the Citizens of this Nation and the Second Amendment - to have not only 4,000,000 members but 4,000,000 NRA Instructors wold have just only taught 20 students each for a total of 80,000,000 graduates of NRA classes who in turn joined the NRA making the NRA membership 80,000,000 members - most who vote ! Somewhere I read there are 80,000,000 gun owners in this GREAT NATION OF OURS !

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    You are deeply misinformed on some of the issues regarding training I do as an NRA TC vs being an employee. You also do not know my personal income, as well as, you have failed to look at the demographics.

    Quote Originally Posted by DOGOFWAR01 View Post
    Going back to some of your posts in DEC 06, in regard this post above, and another post of yours - that you work for the NRA Training Department in the Training Counselor Program.

    I now understand why you support having a lawyer for the NRA Classes in Personal Protection both Inside and Outside the Home.

    I don't think you really do.


    # 1 - you have easy access to a lawyer - one that works for the NRA - which the meets the specific lawyer NRA requirement.

    Actually, as of friday lawyer backed out to due to liablility concerns.
    It is just as hard (maybe harder) to find a Lawyer or Law Enforcement officer willing to conduct any legal course without being extremely well compensated for their time.


    # 2 - the high prices charged for the NRA courses

    ? I have no idea what you are reffering to. America is a free enterprise structure the NRA puts no restriction on what you charge for your courses. I know TC's in states charging $450 for First steps Pistols (4 hour course) they are breaking even. They live in New York their range costs and liability costs for insurance is extremely high. Every shootem up school I have ever seen charges close to $450-$1,000 dollars and that dosn't include ammo or lodging. Btw that is only for the student class.
    How much does it cost to be an Adjunct instructor for one of these places? 2,3,10,000 dollars. How far is your adjunct instructor certification recognized? The nation, the state, the county, the town, or the property of the school?


    # 3 - live near the WDC area

    I don't understand the relivance of this at all? I live near a large metro area with a lot of people. As in anything you do the Supply and Demand sets the price. As well as your costs have to be covered.


    What is not considered by your posts and the NRA.

    # 1 - not nearly even a majority (51%) all NRA Instructors have any at all access to the specific lawyer type - actual percent would probably at the top be - 20%

    No buddy is forcing you to teach any of the Personal Protection courses. (51%) I don't know where you recieve your statistics but thats not the main concern of anybody I talk to. That does come up but I only get about 2 phone calls a week about that. I usually get about 3-4 hundred phone calls a week.

    # 2 - high prices charged for the NRA courses in the WDC - do not relate to the real world across the Nation.

    As well as your demographic area has no reflection of big metro areas that have alot of people coming and going. For me to go on a farm raised elk hunt in Virginia it may cost me 3-4 hundred dollars.
    Fly out to wyoming for an elk it may run $10,000

    # 3 - The NRA Instructor not the NRA is responsible and liable for any information given out orally or written by the lawyer that the NRA Instructor "hires" or "invites" to give the legal portion of the classes.

    This comes down to... You became an NRA instructor you submitted an application to teach NRA courses. If you represent your self as an NRA instructor/TC/STC/MTC/Coach or whatever (you use your NRA instructor number as a tool to accomplish asomething ie Teach courses for concealed carry.) You teach our program Fly are Flag, or abide by the appropriate disclaimer set forth in the Trainers Guide, otherwise don't teach the program or get/ retain the certification.
    If I got a G-site Adjunct instructor certification advertised a G-site course, put my G-site instructor number down but taught a V-alla course, or Rob99VMI04's "1001 neat things to Do with an UZI course" and passed it off as a G-site courses. What do you think G-site would say.



    # 4 - This lawyer requirement is not to protect the Instructor but the NRA itself

    The NRA dosn't make or enforce Laws. Its not an NRA thing its not a Lawyer thing. Its people running around giving legal advice without a JD or a Badge is not a good thing. Whether you want to see it or not it is about protecting the instructor.

    Practicing law without passing the bar or having a license really scares ME!!!!


    # 5 - Nearly most if not all gun schools across the Nation, do not require or have a lawyer give a legal brief. The classes are about guns - Safety, Operation, and Maintenance (SOM) given by the Firearms Instructors.

    Kudos to them. I hope they have a very good insurance company.

    # 6 - NRA classes are suppose to be to train the masses of Citizens of the Nation in SOM, not just the so-called "elite", "well to do",
    those who can travel overnight by vehicle or aircraft, pay high tuition prices

    This is your opinion. NRA has been around since 1871 its soul focus has been training ever since. The shootem schools you are reffering to are doing it as a business. The NRA puts the programs out. We do not limit our instructors based on profits/costs.

    # 7 - the NRA is not providing a service to the Nation or the Citizens of this Nation, or even the NRA 4,000,000 members by having to charge high dollar for basic classes, requiring lawyers (which are hardly available - the NRA will not even recommend one lawyer in each State to assist with these classes)

    Have you asked for the NRA Attorney Referill List? We do have one. NRA instructors Trained 700,000 people last year. Please refer me to another Organization or business that did the same.

    # 8 - the NRA is trying to go down a "dark path" by pushing for National Conceal Carry, which will lead to Federal control of Conceal Carry which will mirror the laws of the most restrictive States or requirements that mirror requirements of Federal Peace Officers or the Armed Pilot Program for the Airlines, which will over ride State laws and rights. The NRA is not considering, we already have a Federal law to cover this area and we need no more laws, we just need to enforce the law on the books - The U.S. Constitution - Bill of Rights - 2 Amendment - "right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed".

    I work at the NRA. The NRA does absolutly NO lobbying what so ever we focus on training/competions/membership. You are reffering to another organization called the NRA ILA. I do not work for them.

    # 9 - Why are you looking for a range ? There is a very nice NRA range by anyone's standard - I seen it and I been in it - the NRA range in the NRA HQ Basement.


    Is there a liability issue or P.C. or what ?

    Actually, like you when I do instructor courses or student classes as ROB99VMI04 I do go through the same hoops everybody else go through. Our range is booked for renting by outside agencys until 2010, I have to register for a class and get scheduled just like every body else.
    the NRA HQ will not let you use the range for NRA classes ? the NRA Range in the NRA HQ is on NRA property teaching a NRA class by a NRA Instructor / Training Counselor using a NRA employed lawyer -

    Range's are much easier to find that lawyers !

    Depends on your demographics? Your complaining about lawyers I complain about Range time and range use. Fairfax county Does not allow us to shoot in our backyards. 4 ranges indoor public shooting ranges in fairfax county. For training they are booked almost 3 years down the road DEA, FBI, Military, the list could fill up 5 pages. Agencies in DC MD and VA (PD, FED, STATE, Private security do not have the facility to conducting shooting because they don't have the facilities. Our range has many Fed contracts as well as the other range I work at part time has many private security contracts. Finding a range in that will allow you to shoot for 4-10 hours is very pricy

    # 10 - It is time the NRA dropped the lawyer requirement (which was not required when the first NRA Personal Protection classes came on line) if the NRA is truly a defender of the Second Amendment, if the NRA truly believes in the Second Amendment for the masses of Citizens across this Nation, if the NRA truly wants the NRA classes instructed across the Nation by the NRA's advertised 50,000 NRA Instructors.

    # 11 - Your $300 for NRA Basic Pistol and Home Firearms Safety Instructor classes is very high compared to many parts of the Nation. Most are not trying to make a proift but try to cover their expenses for classes. $ 300 for two courses - $150 each ?

    As much as I would like to discuss my personal finances with you I don't feel that I should nor do I have any obligation to do so. You do not understand the Supply and Demand for instructors in NOVA/DC/or MD. Again the NRA does not put a limit on wether or not somebody makes a profit. I have never met a instructor who claims to break even who actually HAS broken even. My first class I had a $500 handgun repair. Did I budget for that YES it came out of cost of doing business expense. Also, the guys doing it for some monetary compensation seem to put alot of time and effort into it because they know there are concerns with the courses they teach relating to shooting. (Liability) Your time is worth something. Plus to enhance your own teaching courses you need to make a profit to get more GUN's-helps the industry, helps your professionalism, accomadate more people in the class, and you are gettting MORE people to shoot.

    $300 in many parts of the Nation would buy 4 to 6 classes at $50 to $ 75 each. Two to three times as many classes.

    LOL got a call friday guy wanted me to certify him and another person for a Government contract they just receieved. I guess I shouldn't tell you what I quoted him for 2 people and 31 hours of my time.

    I have never had an instructor that I trained complain after I trained them. Infact I keep up relationships with my instructors we call each other trying to pass off students to each other.

    NOVA average class to get a CHP in VA 75-100 dollars. Just check out our website. Most of the guys in VA I have trained as well as worked with. The successful ones ask to come back and work with me in my first couple of classes to basic students to make sure they are teaching the program correctly.

    My $300 dollar instructor course for pistol those guys can teach a FIRST Steps pistol course or a HFS course for Permits (yes VA recognizes HFS as a validate course for CHP you call CCW) in 4-5 hours and recover that 300 dollars. I'm training my competition!

    I turn Down training and $ every single day. 3 calls last week from government contractors in NOVA who wanted me to train them as instructors. I'm not saying I'm good, nor am I either by any means a bad trainer. I'm saying I don't have time, I refer to other TC's.


    # 12 - It is time for the NRA to wake up - 4,000,000 members, how many of these have taken any NRA class - how many have taken the Personal Protection or the Personal Protection Inside the Home ?

    PPITH alot of people in MI because thats the recognized course up their for MI CPL.
    for the NRA members are NRA classes ?

    - readily available in their local area or 1 /2 day commute ?

    - are there too many hoops to jump through - for Instructors and Students to complete these classes
    - like lawyers and are the number of hours resonable for the classes
    - why not are Basic Rifle, Basic Shotgun, and Basic Pistol just one day classes
    - 8 to 10 hours instead of the higher number of hours required ?
    - if the NRA thinks there are so many lawyers available to assist with Personal Protection classes - then why not does the NRA not publish a list of these lawyers who have volunteered to assist with these classes - or at least just charge a reasonable fee.

    8-10 read the newsletter we are working on this currently. 3 guys in that handle the instructors in the NRA Training department. 52,000 instructors, 1507 TC's, etc.... its coming. But we have to steal time.

    # 13 - The NRA needs to understand the Nation responsibility that they have assumed over the last more than 100 years - then apply the same to the requirements for NRA classes for both Instructors and Students - it would great for this Nation and the Citizens of this Nation and the Second Amendment - to have not only 4,000,000 members but 4,000,000 NRA Instructors wold have just only taught 20 students each for a total of 80,000,000 graduates of NRA classes who in turn joined the NRA making the NRA membership 80,000,000 members - most who vote ! Somewhere I read there are 80,000,000 gun owners in this GREAT NATION OF OURS !


    I'm going to refrence my post under #8

    All this hub bub and still when you leave the military, leave a state that a big shootem school is located in or get retire from LE, Who's credentials are still recognized? NRA's. The people that recognize those credentials recognize a standard. That standard has been put down in a lesson plan, with materials and is univerisal. NRA lesson plans don't reflect opinion/ individual experiences of an indivdual that can't be said for alot of training programs. They are also not designed to take away from the big shootem up school. They are actually designed to get people into those places.
    Last edited by Rob99VMI04; March 5th, 2007 at 03:37 PM.
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

    Its not about guns...Its about Freedom!

  7. #7
    New Member Array minuteman32's Avatar
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    I am an NRA & UT LTC Permit Instructor in IN. I have had maybe 4 people express an interest in the NRA courses (Basic Pistol) & 0 in Personal Protection in the Home. @ the same time, I've had close to 50 people take the UT course! Part of the problem is the 10 hrs per NRA course & securing an acceptable person to teach the law section of PPH. Of course, no training is required for anything in IN, regarding guns. Shall issue if over 18 & clean record.
    I will probably start offering the 1st Steps before too long, just to get some people trained, since that class is only 4 hrs (if that would even work). I may even start doing a combo 1st Steps/UT ltc class, for those that might be interested.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by minuteman32 View Post
    I am an NRA & UT LTC Permit Instructor in IN. I have had maybe 4 people express an interest in the NRA courses (Basic Pistol) & 0 in Personal Protection in the Home. @ the same time, I've had close to 50 people take the UT course! Part of the problem is the 10 hrs per NRA course & securing an acceptable person to teach the law section of PPH. Of course, no training is required for anything in IN, regarding guns. Shall issue if over 18 & clean record.
    I will probably start offering the 1st Steps before too long, just to get some people trained, since that class is only 4 hrs (if that would even work). I may even start doing a combo 1st Steps/UT ltc class, for those that might be interested.
    I am not going to argue that concealed carry drives a lot of this. However, there are more programs then just Pistol, PPTIH, and PPOTH. BSA, Royal Rangers, 4-H, Jaycees, Church Assembly of God, Explorers etc.... Do NRA programs. I once had a wise Police, retired Marine instructor tell me this

    "A good instructor can teach something and get accross the material being discussed well, whether its personal experience or somebody's program

    A great Instructor can teach to the same standard but still adhere to the policies and procedures layed out in the training manual."

    He would do an NRA course and could immediately delete the word Weapon and use Firearm, Rifle, Handgun words when teaching NRA material.

    He would go to train Marines and He could immedietly delete Firearm, Rifle, Handgun, and use the word Weapon.
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

    Its not about guns...Its about Freedom!

  9. #9
    Ex Member Array DOGOFWAR01's Avatar
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    ROB99VMI04

    My words on the WDC, costs, distance to travel, availability to lawyers, availability of ranges, and the different motives Instructors have for presenting NRA classes ... were for you to consider the demographics of the entire Nation not just the local area of Fairfax or the large metro areas.

    The NRA (NRA + NRA-ILA = THE NRA at the TOP of the ORG Chart) is the largest Pro-Gun Rights organization in the world. There are other Pro-Gun Rights organizations which also have influence GOA, RKBA, SAS, AFM, SAF, etc ... I do not want to get on the political side on this thread ... NRA and NRA-ILA, perception is reality in the minds of the people maybe not the lawyers.

    Subject is Training - "specifically" Firearms Training - Safety, Operations, and Maintenance (SOM) - "more specifically" personal protection training (self, family, friends side instead of the commercial side) which is SOM +plus+ individual/family awareness, individual/family protection both inside and outside the house.

    I am a long time member of the NRA and some of the other organizations listed above, I agree with some of what these organizations do but I do not agree with all these organizations do.

    I want the NRA classes to be available across this Nation - everywhere - down to the small town level and no more were one has to travel no more than 4 hours one way driving to find any NRA class they would like to take.

    All Firearms Training, should be "voluntary". The NRA classes are a Nation wide standard, but are not widely offered as could be, the two largest hurdles are time and lawyers.

    - Change the Basic Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun, and MZ RPS to 08 to 10 hours - to be able to accomplish in one day. I know you stated this was being worked on, I have the same from NRA Instructors for "several" years along with revision of the student manuals.

    - Delete the requirement for any lawyer or Peace Officer, just let the Firearm Instructors do SOM +plus+ personal protection. Keep the legal portion in the student manual just for reading purposes to "encourage" students to seek legal information from their personal lawyer and others of their choice.

    The above two actions, will keep costs down for students and Instructors; make it easier to schedule classes; allow scheduling of more classes; reduce the cost of travel; and encourage the use of all NRA classes including PP I/O TH classes.

    No I "do not want any require training" (NRA or not) only "voluntary" training or "permits" for Firearms buying, owning, storing, transportation, or use; to do otherwise is above and beyond the of the Second Amendment. That being said, I do very strongly and highly encourage initial and continuing training at the individual, family, classroom and range level from the Basic to the Personal Protection level with and without Firearms-Knives-Flashlights, Home, Vehicle, and Outside the Home.

    Mail out the lawyer NRA list to your NRA Instructors then Instructors can called upon them and refer students to them. Share the information, "let your NRA light shine".

    RTBAV is another good NRA program.

    CRSO and RSO, I would like to see ranges across the Nation "voluntary" hold these classes for all members that desire to attend.

    As you stated the "NRA" mission is training. Take down two barriers to training as above (1) length of time for class and (2) lawyer ... training will be more available, easier to schedule, more frequency of classes, less cost (both in tuition, range time, if any travel expenses).

    Let the "NRA" Training "light shine".

    Final Note: No Nation Carry System in any shape or form or fashion. States issue. People in their States fix their own problems.

  10. #10
    Ex Member Array DOGOFWAR01's Avatar
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    ROB99VMI04
    QUOTE:
    "Actually, as of friday lawyer backed out to due to liablility concerns.
    It is just as hard (maybe harder) to find a Lawyer or Law Enforcement officer willing to conduct any legal course without being extremely well compensated for their time."
    ++++++++
    Rob: If a NRA Lawyer backed out due to liability concerns for a NRA class. Why would a non-NRA lawyer be willing to volunteer or even with pay to do the legal portion of a NRA class ?

    From what NRA Instructors tell me; cannot any longer use a Peace Officer unless certified by a State to instruct Use of Deadlly Force.

    "extremely well compensated for their time" translates into big $$$$ thereby increasing the cost of class to big bucks per person - how many $$$$ would it cost per student for say a 6 person class just to pay the lawyer .

    If did not have lawyer requirment, one could do an one on one or two on one class which would be very costly if required the lawyer

    Bottom Line: No NRA lawyer will do the legal portion for a class in Virigina for a NRA approved class then why would any other lawyer ?

  11. #11
    Ex Member Array DOGOFWAR01's Avatar
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    Your Experience Drives The Point Home - Hopefully Nra Will Read Heed & Follow Through

    Quote Originally Posted by minuteman32 View Post
    I am an NRA & UT LTC Permit Instructor in IN. I have had maybe 4 people express an interest in the NRA courses (Basic Pistol) & 0 in Personal Protection in the Home. @ the same time, I've had close to 50 people take the UT course! Part of the problem is the 10 hrs per NRA course & securing an acceptable person to teach the law section of PPH. Of course, no training is required for anything in IN, regarding guns. Shall issue if over 18 & clean record.
    I will probably start offering the 1st Steps before too long, just to get some people trained, since that class is only 4 hrs (if that would even work). I may even start doing a combo 1st Steps/UT ltc class, for those that might be interested.
    Many NRA Instructors I know and have met from Wyoming, Arizona, Texas, Arkansas, Georgia, Utah, Florida, Tennessee, and Idaho say the same thing, you stated above :

    # 1 - "problem is the 10 hrs per NRA course"

    # 2 - "securing an acceptable person to teach the law section of PPH."

    Hopefully, the NRA will read, heed, and follow through !

    Every NRA Instructor, I met boils it down two words - time and legal -in a nutshell.

    No value added to classes.

    Thank you for your post.

  12. #12
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    hurting on trying to find a range for all the shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob99VMI04 View Post
    Someguys with me in the Training Department are working on a Personal Protection Outside the home class probably for the summer time. We already have one of the lawyers here at NRA lined up to do the legal section. We are hurting on trying to find a range for all the shooting. We have to do the Basic class first but then we are going to try and do the instructor course after that.
    ROB - above "hurting on trying to find a range for all the shooting"

    I did some research for you

    there are 79 ranges in VA -

    http://www.nrahq.org/shootingrange/f...l.asp?State=VA

    check google or yahoo maps - to find out how many are within a 4 hour drive one-way from your home - 4 hours one-way is a reasonable commute time - out in Wyoming people drive that far for a NRA class - another reason for a 8 hour class - makes one long day - 16 hours - but no expense for hotel - pack some food and eat out of the brown bag - save the $$$ for more AMMO !

  13. #13
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    Again actually your reading what you want. The lawyer does teach courses but for a differn't group. It came down to I guess liability was a bad word more like competition.

    Hears the interesting part. Your thinking that I teach these courses "Privately" all the time I don't I pass off as much training as I can to other TC's and instructors, DOGOFWAR I don't even know who you are but I've probably passed your name out a few times if your on the referral list. I teach Basic Pistol and First steps Pistol, and the passion of my life Shotgun, and then pass them off to another organinzation for PPITH and PPOTH I teach with called IWLA. They have actually got a few Lawyers (volunteers no less) who teach the legal section.

    When I said we are putting one together I ment just that. We are attempting to put one together. Its not real high on the priority list of things to do in ours/My life we have many activities we are doing WOT events, Shotgun coach schools, I work here, and work at gun store with a shooting range, with Travel, NRA annual meeting coming up, and traveling to TC workshops all over the place, I do some private Pistol courses, First steps pistol and Shotgun (yes NRA Shotgun works for Concealed handgun Permits in VA) then I volunteer with some friends to teach PPITH and PPOTH at the Local Gun Club. I don't souly base my teaching ON CCW, CHP, CLP, or whatever you call it. I do alot of training with BSA and try helping them get there people trained up to be able to allow there troops to shoot. Infact I will be out finishing a shotgun/ Rifle instructor course for a BSA group that I donated 31 hours of my time too so they could get ready for BSA camp schools. Summer time I'm schedule to go to the NORTH East Regional BSA camp schools and I think that lasts over a week or so.

    I don't know were you got the no lawyer from will teach the course but I really haven't bothered to look for one besides small talk at work with that one lawyer I reffered to. I know of one lawyer who does alot of stuff like this for IWLA, Piedmont, and VCDL.


    From what NRA Instructors tell me; cannot any longer use a Peace Officer unless certified by a State to instruct Use of Deadlly Force.

    Read the Shooting Education Update it tels you exactly who can teach the legal section.

    LESSON III must be conducted either by an attorney licensed to practice law within the state in which this course is presented and who is familiar with this area of the law or by an individual currently certified to instruct this area of the law by the state in which this course is presented. NRA Certified Instructors may conduct this lesson only if they meet one of these requirements and then only in their capacity as an attorney or state certified individual, not in their capacity as an NRA Certified Instructor. It is essential to the quality of the lesson that the person conducting Lesson III be provided a copy of that portion of the Lesson Plan well in advance of the class to allow for proper prepartation and planning. NRA instructors are authorized to reproduce Lesson III for that purpose. [B]Schedule Lesson III to allow ample time for questions and answers during and at the end of this lesson. [/B
    Quote Originally Posted by DOGOFWAR01 View Post

    Bottom Line: No NRA lawyer will do the legal portion for a class in Virigina for a NRA approved class then why would any other lawyer ?
    and the one I talk to does it 1 time a month for a differ't organization.

    Look Up Personal Protection I see 3 so far on the schedule this year.

    http://www.nrahq.org/education/train...State=VA&Type=

    ROB99VMI04
    QUOTE:
    "Actually, as of friday lawyer backed out to due to liablility concerns.
    It is just as hard (maybe harder) to find a Lawyer or Law Enforcement officer willing to conduct any legal course without being extremely well compensated for their time."
    ++++++++
    Rob: If a NRA Lawyer backed out due to liability concerns for a NRA class. Why would a non-NRA lawyer be willing to volunteer or even with pay to do the legal portion of a NRA class ?



    "extremely well compensated for their time" translates into big $$$$ thereby increasing the cost of class to big bucks per person - how many $$$$ would it cost per student for say a 6 person class just to pay the lawyer .

    If did not have lawyer requirment, one could do an one on one or two on one class which would be very costly if required the lawyer

    Bottom Line: No NRA lawyer will do the legal portion for a class in Virigina for a NRA approved class then why would any other lawyer ?[/QUOTE]
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

    Its not about guns...Its about Freedom!

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    Thanks for the insite. Most of them are private Northern Virginia We don't translate 1 mile=60 miles an hour= 1 min of driving time. I work 1.5 miles from work it takes me 20-30 minutes to drive in in the morning traffic lights are on average 7 minutes long. I used to walk and beat my roomate who was driving his car.
    Quote Originally Posted by DOGOFWAR01 View Post
    ROB - above "hurting on trying to find a range for all the shooting"

    I did some research for you

    there are 79 ranges in VA -

    http://www.nrahq.org/shootingrange/f...l.asp?State=VA

    check google or yahoo maps - to find out how many are within a 4 hour drive one-way from your home - 4 hours one-way is a reasonable commute time - out in Wyoming people drive that far for a NRA class - another reason for a 8 hour class - makes one long day - 16 hours - but no expense for hotel - pack some food and eat out of the brown bag - save the $$$ for more AMMO !
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

    Its not about guns...Its about Freedom!

  15. #15
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    DOG,
    I'm really not trying to hinder you on this I'm actually trying to help.

    I called a lawyer who is on our Lawyers referral list who is in WY.
    I really don't want to discuss this any further on this Forum. You have my phone number as its in the original posting for this post. I have not heard back from him yet but if you call me I will be happy to pass on what the lawyer said and give you his number since hes on the refferal list.

    I did hear back from this gentleman and he said he would be happy to speak with you.

    I will not post his phone number as its on our refferall list I will give it to you over the phone.
    Last edited by Rob99VMI04; March 6th, 2007 at 04:16 PM.
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

    Its not about guns...Its about Freedom!

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