For Instructors And The Nra Hq

This is a discussion on For Instructors And The Nra Hq within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; http://www.paladintactical.com/Resea...0conscious.pdf An outstanding article by DAVID R WILLIAMS "IT IS FOLLY TO BELIEVE THAT AT SOME POINT SELF-DEFENSE DOESN'T BECOME OFFENSE" "WHY DO I NOT ...

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Thread: For Instructors And The Nra Hq

  1. #1
    Ex Member Array DOGOFWAR01's Avatar
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    For Instructors And The Nra Hq

    http://www.paladintactical.com/Resea...0conscious.pdf

    An outstanding article by DAVID R WILLIAMS

    "IT IS FOLLY TO BELIEVE THAT AT SOME POINT SELF-DEFENSE DOESN'T BECOME OFFENSE"

    "WHY DO I NOT FOCUS ON TEACHING PEOPLE JUSTIFIABLE
    USE-OF-FORCE ? FOR THE SAME REASON THAT A RACING
    SCHOOL DOES NOT TEACH ITS STUDENTS HOW TO OBEY TRAFFIC
    LIGHTS, SIGNALS, AND SIGNS. THIS IS THE RESPONSIBILITY
    OF THE DRIVER, NOT THE INSTRUCTOR."

    "AT NO TIME IS IT THE INSTRUCTOR'S RESPONSIBILITY
    TO ENSURE THAT THEIR STUDENTS DO NOT BEGIN TO BREAK
    TRAFFIC LAWS ON THE WAY HOME FROM THEIR CLASS."

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    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    Wow.

    If you would like to discuss something with me please feel free to PM me instead of using this method. I will be happy to provid you with my phone number for you to call me Toll free.
    Last edited by Rob99VMI04; March 5th, 2007 at 12:38 PM.
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

    Its not about guns...Its about Freedom!

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    Senior Member Array Weeg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOGOFWAR01 View Post
    http://www.paladintactical.com/Resea...0conscious.pdf

    An outstanding article by DAVID R WILLIAMS

    "IT IS FOLLY TO BELIEVE THAT AT SOME POINT SELF-DEFENSE DOESN'T BECOME OFFENSE"

    "WHY DO I NOT FOCUS ON TEACHING PEOPLE JUSTIFIABLE
    USE-OF-FORCE ? FOR THE SAME REASON THAT A RACING
    SCHOOL DOES NOT TEACH ITS STUDENTS HOW TO OBEY TRAFFIC
    LIGHTS, SIGNALS, AND SIGNS. THIS IS THE RESPONSIBILITY
    OF THE DRIVER, NOT THE INSTRUCTOR."

    "AT NO TIME IS IT THE INSTRUCTOR'S RESPONSIBILITY
    TO ENSURE THAT THEIR STUDENTS DO NOT BEGIN TO BREAK
    TRAFFIC LAWS ON THE WAY HOME FROM THEIR CLASS."

    And please don't shout (all caps)



  5. #4
    Member Array PeteTschantz's Avatar
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    I'm at a loss. I understand that this article was read. DOGOFWAR01, are you aggreeing / dissagreeing with the article? What exactly is that you want the NRA and its instructors to do differently?

    Not a flame, just found some of the points in the article very interested, and need clarification. Thanks
    Sprinfield XD 4" .45 Compact
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  6. #5
    Ex Member Array DOGOFWAR01's Avatar
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    PeteTschantz

    Just another article for Instructors and the NRA to think about as it may apply to their situation - actually training (Instructors) or writing training (NRA). All situations and all students are not the same thing: i.e. purpose of the training, level of students being trained, etc

    I do agree that students or former students are responsible for their own actions or inactions. Instructors are not with the students after they depart the class. Instructors control the class in the classroom and on the range. Instructors are responsible to instruct Safety - Operation - Maintenance (SOM) of Firearms.

    I do agree that a some point a self-defense can be offense, depending on the situation and how far the situation goes.

    Many seem to think, one reaction will work in all situations even though all situations are not the same.

    Just like any article on any subject, each reads and draws their own conclusions, based on their prior life experiences.

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    Ex Member Array DOGOFWAR01's Avatar
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    PeteTschantz

    Montana already has the law below and Wyoming is working toward a like law if not the same law. NRA should be trying to pass this same law in all 50 States.

    http://data.opi.state.mt.us/bills/mca/27/1/27-1-721.htm

    27-1-721. Immunity of certain firearms and hunter safety or hunter education instructors. A person who is designated as a hunter safety instructor or hunter education instructor by the department of fish, wildlife, and parks under 87-2-105 or certified as an instructor by a national firearms association, who trains people in the lawful use of firearms, and who is not employed by a governmental entity is not liable for the conduct, acts, or omissions of a student handling firearms unless the instructor exhibits gross negligence giving rise to causation of the damages.

    http://mtssa.org/successes.phtml

    Firearm Safety Instructors Exempt from Liability. 27-1-721, M.C.A. It has become more and more difficult to recruit firearm instructors because of possible exposure of instructors' personal assets to lawsuits over gun accidents by an instructor's student. This law, written and pushed successfully by MSSA, exempts firearm safety instructors from acts or omissions of students as long as the instructor did not use gross negligence in training the student.

  8. #7
    Member Array PeteTschantz's Avatar
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    Thanks DOGOFWAR01, I'll be getting my first NRA Instructor cert in a couple of months, so I have started paying a lot more attention to these types of threads. Thanks for the reasoned response.
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    I guess I missed how this applies to any of the basic training that the NRA sanctions?

    Are you advocating that the NRA start training instructors to train people as Mr. Williams advocates?
    Procrastinators are the leaders of tomorrow.

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    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    I once heard a very wise and known man in the sniper world say that until you completely master the basics you cannot do anything advanced.

    This was during a course being taught to advanced shooters, and he was in there teaching Position, Grip, Sight Alignment, Breath Control, Trigger Pull, and Follow Through.
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

    Its not about guns...Its about Freedom!

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