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Anyone Been To Lethal Force Institute?

10K views 24 replies 16 participants last post by  sliponby 
#1 ·
If any of the members have taken the 4 day LFI-1 course taught by Massad Ayoob, did you feel the course was worth the time and money spent? It now costs $800.00 for the 4 days.
 
#2 ·
BTDT. Yeah, anything over $150 or so makes me think twice. But, thinking is good, and at an Ayoob course you'll think more than many. He's recognized for his material and his thinking. It's top notch.

IMO, his LFI-1 and LFI-2 courses are the best of their kind. Now, there are a lot of courses out there. Some focus on the legal/textbook aspects of carrying and self-defense. Some focus on shooting skills. Some focus on overall defensive preparation and tactics, with active shooting being only a tithe of the covered material. Some are 100% force-on-force arrangements (a la Suarez). Take as many as you can, from a variety of top trainers, since most of the top ones strongly contribute to your preparations and skills.

There aren't many good alternatives to LFI-1. About the closest you get is the book In The Gravest Extreme. LFI-1 is that book on steroids. Heavy on the pros/cons and mindset. Focus on the responsible thinking that must go into carrying concealed. About 65-70% class time (lecture and discussion), with the remainder on the range.

Add to that a few courses that cover weapons retention, CQB fighting, short-range / carbine rifle and other skills, then you've got a good "base" of overall defensive skills in the tool chest. IMO, LFI-1 (and perhaps -2) should be part of the chest.
 
#3 ·
The video's listed below are taken directly from two of the multiple lectures from his 40 hr. LFI-1 class.

I highly recommend these video's to anyone who carries a gun. It will give you but a little taste of what you will get from the entire 40 hr. LFI-1 course.

If you like what you see, save your pennies and enroll in his class. IIRC, his program is approx. 60% lecture and classroom and 40% intensive combat shooting 500+ rounds.

I am saving my money and looking for one of his on the road courses offered closer to home. (My goal for 2008)

Judicious Use of Deadly Force
by Massad Ayoob
130 min available on VHS and DVD
http://www.ayoob.com/

Physio-Psychological Aspects of Violent Encounters
by Massad Ayoob
120 min. available on VHS
http://www.ayoob.com/
 
#6 ·
If any of the members have taken the 4 day LFI-1 course taught by Massad Ayoob, did you feel the course was worth the time and money spent? It now costs $800.00 for the 4 days.
Chump change for what you learn in the class, if you can pass.
There is a shooting qualifier and a written test you won't pass if you don't pay attention in class. BUT if you take the course I doubt you won't pay attention.

I never saw anyone nodding off, even though we spent ten hours a day covering material. Let me say this, "If you can sleep in that class, you need medical help!"
 
#7 ·
Attended in the late 80's courtesy of my then employer and would highly recommend these courses as a bargain at twice the current price
 
#8 ·
I know people who have trained their Myself I only train anymore when health and money allows with Suarez International. My book of you want to learn gun fighting instead of gun shooting nothing comes close to SI
 
#9 · (Edited)
Heck, all I got was the CQB Instructor Course that Uncle Sam provided, and some paid time applying what was learned. :wink:

The videos and info provided by the previous posts (above) are very appreciated. We all need to go back to shoolin at regular intervals to stay safe and proficeint.

(One of the reasons I appreciated this Forum = not a lot of worthless trash to wade through and alway several good threads on stuff I should think about, know or learn to be better).
 
#12 ·
My biggest thing with Mas is he gets you to thinking more about legalities than using lethal force while you are in the fight.

Yes you need to know what is legal in the state you are in. But when you are in the fight for your life is not the time to be thinking about what some DA is going to do after you hopefully come out alive. 2nd guessing your action we get you killed and you have to be alive to worry about what happen afterwards.
 
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#15 ·
My biggest thing with Mas is he gets you to thinking more about legalities than using lethal force while you are in the fight.

Yes you need to know what is legal in the state you are in. But when you are in the fight for your life is not the time to be thinking about what some DA is going to do ...
Which is why he drills it into everyone's heads so heavily, I'd say. Hopefully, then, the drilling has been so focused and intensive that it'll stick with you, so that when the chips are down in a fight for your life it's all instinctive and then you don't have to be mulling over what the DA/GJ is going to think. A bit like what we all do with dry-fire drills, stress-induced live-fire drills, CQB FOF type training, etc. "Muscle memory," if you will.
 
#13 · (Edited)
I've gone through Mas' MAG-40 class twice and I found it has been worth every penny and then some! The first time was in Las Vegas and this last time was at the Live Oak, FL. The information provided in the class during the four days is overwhelming! 20 hours of legal and 20 hours of range time! This is NOT a learn to shoot class! For that Mas has a MAG-80 class or go to Gunsite.

Just a note, As a repeater you get a 50% discount!

The cadre and group in Live Oak, FL were top notch and most are either retired LEOs, active LEOs, and some Miltary retires! If I take another class with MAS it will be at the Live Oak, FL. group.

Here is a link to his current website: Massad Ayoob Group
 
#14 ·
A good deal of the material presented in LFI-1 will give the law abiding person pause, there are so many legal traps we can fall into. We have to accept that legalities are part of the fight. Successfully defending yourself only to go to prision or be sued into poverty would make for a rather hollow victory. Having the knowledge of what is and isn't legal leaves us free to fully concentrate on the threat and less likely to hesitate. LFI-1 gives us that knowledge.

No one class is going to give us all the training and information we need. If we are truly interested in surviving a self defense encounter all facets of the fight need to be addressed.
 
#22 ·
I will agree I know nothing of Mas other than what I hear and read, mainly in my Handgun Combat mag, but from those articles he seem to be wanting you to be thinking about all the "I" and "T" while in the gunfight. Myself all I want to be thinking about while in the gunfight is putting little round holes where they need to be.

For me what I need to know is there is a threat facing me and it has reached the point I need to stop (kill it). Therefore my sig line. You don't shoot them in the back nor do you chase them down the street and you don't put them out of their misery.

Know the laws in your state, once the situation has reached the point of no return then think only of the fight. Not the what if's. Because some DA is going to question what you do no matter how you do it. That's his job or at least he thinks it is, because "MY GOD" you used a gun.
 
#24 · (Edited)
LFI-1 or what is now known as MAG/40 isn't meant to scare an innocent person into inaction. It is meant to prepare the average law abiding person for what may "possibly" occur before, during and after a lethal force incident. MAG/40 covers the legal aspects of the encounter because most of us have little or no legal education and are completly unaware of the "trick bags" that can used against us. I'm sure we all know someone whose preparation for self defense consists of going to the range a few times a year or competing in a shooting sport, never giving the legal ramifications of using lethal force a second thought. Or the phychological problems that can occur, Mas makes the point that alcoholism and suicide are not uncommon for those who have used lethal force. There is also the ostracization of family, friends and society in general or as Mas refers to it, "the Mark of Cain". Subsequent to using lethal force a person doing so will always be seen as one who has "taken human life".

As the old saying goes "knowledge is power". Understanding the the legal, physical, phychological traumas of the fight makes them easier to defend against.
 
#25 ·
If you are confronted with what you, as a reasonable person, ascertain to be actions from a threat(s) that would be reasonably expected to cause your death or serious bodily injury, then you are justified in the use of deadly force in your defense.

Bad situations tend to happen rather quickly. It is my belief (hope, prayer) that my training will guide my actions when I have an OODA loop with a time frame in tenths of a second. Knowing what to say, as well as what not to say, after a situation where you were forced to defend yourself with deadly force is quite important. This begins with the 911 call, "I was attacked and feared for my life and was forced to use my legally carried gun to defend myself". Or, if witnesses are present, make sure they are willing to give a true and accurate account of what transpired.

Another thing. I never shoot to kill. I shoot to stop the threat. If that ends in the threat dying, that's unfortunate for him...
 
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