Shooting with a light?

This is a discussion on Shooting with a light? within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have not trained in this. All I know is what Iv;e seen on TV. Is there a propper way to hold a light and ...

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Thread: Shooting with a light?

  1. #1
    Member Array Argus's Avatar
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    Shooting with a light?

    I have not trained in this. All I know is what Iv;e seen on TV. Is there a propper way to hold a light and handgun?

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Array Macattack's Avatar
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    hmmm there are lots of ways. Also depends on what flash light. ( I use a huge d cell maglight at home that can double as a club.) I'm sure the best way would prevent you from shooting your flashlight hand. Beyond that I'm of little help. I live with the wifey in a small aprt. Any bumps in the night get the pump shottie treatment. (It has a light of its very own on the business end)
    -mac
    "In those days, there was a lot more respect for other people and it showed in peoples values.... Today the word value means nothing more than something you get on the $1 menu at McDonald's." -BARK'N

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    Member Array Argus's Avatar
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    I keep a Scorpian with my gun. On tv. you see this crossed wrist kinda of deal.

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    Member Array TexasDuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Argus View Post
    I have not trained in this. All I know is what Iv;e seen on TV. Is there a propper way to hold a light and handgun?
    I found this. http://www.surefire.com/surefire_ins..._Editorial.pdf

    I learned the Harries technique in low light training.

  6. #5
    Distinguished Member Array Chooie's Avatar
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    One of our members wrote this guide. It's quite concise, and should help answer any questions you have.

    http://www.themartialist.com/1203/fightwithlight.htm

    There's also the "FBI stance," where you hold the flashlight at arms length out to one side.

  7. #6
    Member Array Argus's Avatar
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    Excellent, good starting point. Thank you.

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    Member Array houdini's Avatar
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    I have a dvd on night master low light shooting flashlight techinques. it realy a good dvd on this.

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    Member Array kahman's Avatar
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    I was taught the Harries technique at Front Sight during the night shooting. It seemed pretty good but of course takes some practice. I found an outdoor range about 10 minutes from my house I'll be signing up for that is supposedly 24/7 so I'll be able to practice it in real low light training.
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    VIP Member Array semperfi.45's Avatar
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    Neck index is the way I found to be best for me.
    Training means learning the rules. Experience means learning the exceptions.

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    Senior Member Array Sergeant Mac's Avatar
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    Just a little under a year ago, I bought a SureFire Z2 light, thinking that the "Wilson/Rogers" technique was the answer to all my problems.

    I've since learned that, EXACTLY like the Harries technique, it's only good for me until I need to use that other hand to reload or (far more commonly) turn a doorkob.

    "The" answer for me might just be a weapon-mounted light.

  12. #11
    Member Array Argus's Avatar
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    Houdini, what's the DVD?
    Semperfi.45 Huh?

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array semperfi.45's Avatar
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    If you have to ask...

    Neck Index Technqiue Description

    The flashlight is held in ice-pick grip. Thumb or any finger placed on the on-off (or momentary) switch.

    For large flashlights, the flashlight body is rested on the shoulder, indexed against the base of the neck.

    For small flashlights, the body of the flashlight (or the fist holding it) is held indexed against the jaw/neck juncture just below the ear, so that it moves in conjunction with user's head yet blocks little peripheral vision. Weapon is held in any position desired, out of contact with flashlight hand or arm.

    History of technique

    First published description of this technique appeared in a June 1994 Handguns Magazine article by Brian Puckett, and therefore it is sometimes called the Puckett Technique. However, Ken Good and Dave Maynard of Combative Concepts Inc. taught the small flashlight version of this technique about two years prior to the ’94 article. Puckett and Good now use the term "neck-index technique".

    While it was common for police officers to hold large flashlights in a similar manner during casual use or during extended searches, this technique (1) utilized the ergonomic, tactical, and even psychological benefits provided by this common, comfortable grip, and (2) broke from the long trend of hands-together flashlight/gun techniques.

    The goal of hands-together techniques is to steady the shooting hand and/or keep the flashlight beam constantly aligned with the gun barrel. Good and Maynard’s dynamic combat techniques did not require this, and Puckett questioned the overall desirability of it.

    To quote from the latter’s original article: "No standard gun/flashlight technique provides a firm, two-hand hold on the weapon. Instead of attempting to dodge this fact through complex, unnatural or unsuitable approximations of a two-hand hold - making the cure worse than the disease - the better course is to accept the
    one-handedness of the weapon hold. Do not make it a liability, make the best of it" .

    Positive attributes of Neck Index technique

    • Clear illumination of sights and the target simultaneously.
    • Natural transition from FBI technique.
    • Works with small or large flashlights.
    • For large flashlights, weight is borne almost entirely by the user’s body, enabling extended use
    • No beam/grip displacement upon discharge of weapon.
    • Separation of hands reduces chance of sympathetic contraction and hand confusion.
    • Enables searching with flashlight independent of aiming weapon.
    • Flashlight is held in “cocked” position for defensive purposes if required.
    • Usable with injured hand or arm, as it virtually duplicates natural “flipper” position of wounded limb.
    • Supports an aligned body position for movement in any direction.
    • For ambidextrous operators - excellent for lateral movement (moving left, flashlight left side, handgun right hand -- moving right flashlight right, handgun left hand).
    • Can be easily transitioned to light forward, weapon back for weapon retention in close quarters.
    • Supports "Power with Light" Principle
    • Easy to use Bilaterally

    Negative attributes

    • User must shoot one-handed.
    • Can create excess “splash” of light off rear of weapon if not familiar with technique.
    • Light is located near the head - All threats need to be accounted for.

    Employing the Neck Index requires that the light's reflector is held indexed against the jaw/neck juncture just below the ear, so that it moves in conjunction with user's head, yet blocks little peripheral vision. The thumb is placed on the momentary tailcap switch, if using a SureFire CombatLight, or a finger is positioned on the body-mounted switch, if using an old-style flashlight. For the older, large "police flashlights," the flashlight body is rested on the shoulder, indexed against the base of the neck. For compact, lithium-powered flashlights, the body of the flashlight, or the fist holding it, is indexed against the neck. The weapon is held in any position desired, out of contact with flashlight hand or arm.

    An ancillary benefit of the Neck Index Technique is that it utilizes the same basic position as the common method of cops when they interview suspects - resting the light on the shoulder in order to deliver a fast strike if the suspect suddenly becomes aggressive. By employing a similar position, the Neck Index Technique allows an ergonomic, tactical and even psychological benefit. The Neck Index Technique breaks from the trend of hands-together techniques that have been universal since the Harries was first introduced. The goal of hands-together techniques is to steady the shooting hand and keep the flashlight beam aligned with the gun barrel. Good and Maynard's dynamic combat techniques did not require this, and anyone who has tested different techniques in a CQB environment - and not just on the range - will agree that the ability to take cover and shoot bilaterally from around corners more than offsets the putative drawback of the Neck Index's less stability than a hands-together technique.

    Good info here-Surefire Article
    Training means learning the rules. Experience means learning the exceptions.

  14. #13
    Member Array ShackleMeNot's Avatar
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    I work most of my low light training from the neck index but it isn't always the best answer in all situations. Knowing and practicing more than one technique will give you better options when you can't use your favorite.
    Shay Van Vlymen - Instructor Tactical Response

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    VIP Member Array semperfi.45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShackleMeNot View Post
    I work most of my low light training from the neck index but it isn't always the best answer in all situations. Knowing and practicing more than one technique will give you better options when you can't use your favorite.
    +1. I prefer neck index but am proficient at all. As I have progressed in my skill set, I have really learned to dislike two handed flashlight positions.
    Training means learning the rules. Experience means learning the exceptions.

  16. #15
    Member Array Argus's Avatar
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    Thanks for the explanation. I'm trying to soak up as much info as possible.

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