Outside of the box training

Outside of the box training

This is a discussion on Outside of the box training within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The recent threads about shooting and shooting a lot, how it makes you a better shooter etc. made me want to ask this... Most of ...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 25
  1. #1
    Administrator
    Array SIXTO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    19,903

    Outside of the box training

    The recent threads about shooting and shooting a lot, how it makes you a better shooter etc. made me want to ask this...

    Most of the training that improves your pistolcraft is done with out ever shooting anything.

    How many train just moving around with your weapon? There is skill involved with that, and it very important.

    How about your draw to sight picture to re holster?

    Weapon retention?

    Weapon transfer?

    What other out side of the box stuff do you do?
    Last edited by SIXTO; July 26th, 2007 at 10:09 PM. Reason: forgot a line... doh!
    "Just blame Sixto"


  2. #2
    Assistant Administrator
    Array P95Carry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    South West PA
    Posts
    25,484
    How about your draw to sight picture to re holster?
    That is one of my faves ....... and I find it is assisted by my CT grips. I draw to engage 'something' in the office and see how my grip works out regarding both my sighted picture and where the dot ends up.

    I discovered thru this as much as anything - that the full engagement of the web of my strong hand was essential to consistency of grip - and so accuracy, even to extent of ''point'' shooting adequacy. I draw now with a strong 'downthrust' onto the grips - so that web of hand sits fully onto backstrap below beavertail - b4 gun exits rig.

    I also ''out of box'' practice weak hand draw and also hand to hand gun swap/exchange. That is based on considering a damaged but not useless strong hand - sufficient that it can draw and pass to weak hand, even tho itself not good enough for accurate fire.

    I agree bigtime ... not all practice requires live fire at all. When I do live fire tho I more and more incorporate movement - gotta rid myself of the static nature of shooting, per a lot of my past competition stuff years ago.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  3. #3
    Senior Moderator
    Array limatunes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    4,246
    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    The recent threads about shooting and shooting a lot, how it makes you a better shooter etc.

    Most of the training that improves your pistolcraft is done with out ever shooting anything.

    How many train just moving around with your weapon? There is skill involved with that, and it very important.

    How about your draw to sight picture to re holster?

    Weapon retention?

    Weapon transfer?

    What other out side of the box stuff do you do?

    Very good point and very good questions. I probably practice these things more than I actually shoot.

    Often, I load my gun up with snap caps, holster it and go about my day. From various positions I practice drawing, disengaging the safety, sighting, just plain handling it. My hands are very familiar with my gun. I know I can operate any part of my gun without a single glance. I often practice moving around while keeping my eyes on the "target area."

    I actually enjoy working with my gun and getting more and more "intimate" with it. It's by practicing with it (other than shooting) that I learned I needed new sights. It was through playing with it that I learned I needed a new safety. Most of the things I have customized on it have been because I was playing with it OTHER than on the range.

  4. #4
    Senior Moderator
    Array HotGuns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    14,921
    I occasionally shoot steel plates. Not good for anything other than hitting 5 10" diameter targets at 15 yards as fast as I can.

    Shootin and movin... B27 targets a 7,12 and 15 yards.
    First from left to right,3 shots each as quickly as possible from holster. Second from right to left with reload quickly as possible.

    Fire from barricade...several ways.
    First, over the barricade at various ranges.
    Second, from the side of the barricade.
    Third from opposite side of barricade.
    Occasionally laying down beside the barricade.

    Occasionally, we do barricade, reload on the run and to silhouettes.
    Just to keep it interesting, we'll put a hostage target in there or a silhouette holding a phone instead of a gun. You'd be surprised how much that one gets shot anyway.

    Various shotgun drills from 7 out to 80 yards. From door of car, to trunk of car to supported trunk of car to kneeling.

    Aimed fire with rifle from 25 on out to 100. Various positions, various reloads, sometimes walking forward, backward, sometimes running to a barricade and then engaging target.

    Strong hand shoots, weak hand shoots,combat reloads,tactical reloads, slide racking with belt and boot.

    Weapon familiarity drills.
    Another interesting drill is to pick up gun off the ground, and engage target ASAP. Can be a challenge if one has never fired that particular type of gun, although I've never had a problem with that, many do.

    Some of the regular Simunitons stuff to keep everyone honest...although personally I don't think we do it enough.

    The usual precision rifle stuff. Run 50 yards and engage 1 " square targets. . Run back to 0 and engage at 100. Standing,kneeling, laying.Barricade. Vehicle. Off hand out to 300 hundred, silhouette.

    Add that to the fact that I shoot out to 1000 with various rifles just for fun.

    Just the usual stuff.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
    Like custom guns and stuff? Check this out...
    http://bobbailey1959.wordpress.com/

  5. #5
    Lead Moderator
    Array rocky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    16,026
    Drawing and stepping off line. drawing to low retention, to full sight picture, ect. Drawing while falling back, sideways or forward.
    Reloading with out looking at the pistol(eyes forward toward target). I practice open hand defensive strikes , punches, kicks. Also strikes while drawing.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Array sojourner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    1,054
    I use the beamhit laser training unit with an insidethebarrel laser. I draw from concealment and hit the target. I also set up the target so that I have to hit it from behind cover. I use it (infrequently) to do one hand shooting and one hand weak side shooting. I also practice stepping off the line and drawing and shooting. Once in a great while, I use it in dark conditions so I can be comfortable shooting in dark situations.

    I don't understand why more people don't own/use a beamhit system. For the price of a handgun, they can have a training system that they can use at home every day if they want.

    I also do FOF 1x/month in winter months and some type of shoot, e.g., IDPA 1x/month in warm weather.

  7. #7
    SCW
    SCW is offline
    Member Array SCW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    24
    I have only recently started 'training' for defensive pistol. I consider myself a fair shot and I'm pretty familiar with my pistol, but working defensively has been completely different. The guys I've been shooting with have a slightly different focus on their training which I actually like thus far. One session of 2-hours I used 23 rounds. The next week I used 150, round count is pretty inconsistant but fundamentals aren't.

    Here are a few things that I've done in my short experience that I consider 'out of the box'.

    1) Movement. The idea being that it's better to not get shot than it is to shoot someone else. We run like devils during the El Presidente, Teuller (sp?) drill, etc. Never static, always some movement.

    2) Seul (again, sp?) position while looking around after a shoot. Frequently one or two of the observers will stand behind the shooter with arms crossed, knife in hand, etc. After the shoot the shooter checks 360* and talks to the observers, telling them to drop the knife, show hands, etc. Reinforces that the event isn't over just because you put a few holes in cardboard, and also reinforces that as soon as your done shooting you don't want to 'show clear' in a hot zone.

    3) Double-taps. They don't really exist, shoot until the threat is neutralized and do it while moving.

    Hopefully one of the old hands (Blackeagle or Harold Green) will jump in and discuss this a little more.

  8. #8
    Administrator
    Array SIXTO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    19,903
    Does anyone think about or seek instruction on how to hold onto your pistol or long gun in between shots... so it doesnt get taken away from you?
    "Just blame Sixto"

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Array sojourner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    1,054
    sixto - great question. I think about it, but have never sought instruction yet. Do you have any recommended training for non-LEO on gun retention? Meaning, I don't have to be LEO to take the course or buy the book/video.

    Edit to add: I have no retention devices on my holster, so that would be a factor for my training.

    I have a mold gun and can train with it with my buddy. Initially, I am looking for techniques.

    Any help you could provide would be appreciated.

  10. #10
    VIP Member
    Array OPFOR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Nomad
    Posts
    4,713
    I sometimes went to a Jack in the Box after training, does that count?

    Seriously, I try to add "non-standard" drills to every session, but I don't think any of them are revolutionary or outside of the norm for serious defensive shooters.

    Shooting in close proximity to partners/teammates is always a good one - see how people respond with noise, flash, and hot brass as distractors. Shooting while moving, transitioning from long gun to hand gun, one handed, sitting, kneeling, flat on your back (as if you've just been knocked down), one handed reloads, using a car as cover, firing from inside a car, and so on. Obviously, I can't do all of these every time I go out, but I pick a few and go with it. Just wish I had more time/ammo/targets/facilities/training aids - as does everyone else, I'm sure.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  11. #11
    Administrator
    Array SIXTO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    19,903
    Quote Originally Posted by sojourner View Post
    sixto - great question. I think about it, but have never sought instruction yet. Do you have any recommended training for non-LEO on gun retention? Meaning, I don't have to be LEO to take the course or buy the book/video.

    Edit to add: I have no retention devices on my holster, so that would be a factor for my training.

    I have a mold gun and can train with it with my buddy. Initially, I am looking for techniques.

    Any help you could provide would be appreciated.
    You dont need a retention device, you just need to lock it down your strong hand. The trick is knowing what to do after that.
    There are lots of good videos that show all kinds of stuff like this, wilson combat put out a series that was pretty good. It was a no nonsense videos, but they are good. Caliber press has a good selection too.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  12. #12
    Senior Moderator
    Array HotGuns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    14,921
    Does anyone think about or seek instruction on how to hold onto your pistol or long gun in between shots... so it doesnt get taken away from you?
    Ummm....no
    .
    What kind of yahoo would try to take my loaded gun from my hand when it is in the ready position in between shots?

    Only a dumb one.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
    Like custom guns and stuff? Check this out...
    http://bobbailey1959.wordpress.com/

  13. #13
    Administrator
    Array SIXTO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    19,903
    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Ummm....no
    .
    What kind of yahoo would try to take my loaded gun from my hand when it is in the ready position in between shots?

    Only a dumb one.
    Your joking... right? You dont building search with your gun at the standard low ready, or with arms extended... do you?
    "Just blame Sixto"

  14. #14
    Lead Moderator
    Array rocky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    16,026
    Shooting from close retention is always interesting for me. Being LH'ed I typically get brass flying into my chest, stomach ect.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

  15. #15
    Moderator
    Array Bark'n's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    West Central Missouri
    Posts
    9,917
    Handgun/long gun weapon retention is very important. I have learned and taught the Lindell Method. I do not believe it is available on video but there are a couple DVD's on handgun retention available here:
    http://gunvideo.com/index.php?tpl=se...dgun+retention
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Pattern Training -vs- Pattern Recognition Training
    By Sweatnbullets in forum Defensive Carry & Tactical Training
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: February 15th, 2011, 01:05 AM
  2. Are you happy with your academy/department firearm training, seek private training?
    By Jcabin in forum Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: December 17th, 2009, 11:38 AM
  3. Why Training
    By bandit383 in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 85
    Last Post: January 21st, 2009, 02:25 PM
  4. Texas training, Shivworks training PUC & ECQC 1&2
    By fm2 in forum Defensive Carry & Tactical Training
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: January 3rd, 2009, 03:14 PM
  5. Looking For Tactical Training/Force on Force Reality Training in Michigan
    By ChefRski in forum Defensive Carry & Tactical Training
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: January 17th, 2006, 01:20 PM

Search tags for this page

combat handguns tactics column rick miller

,

rick miller tactics column

,

tactics column rick miller

Click on a term to search for related topics.

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!

» DefensiveCarry Sponsors