Taking a gun away.
This is a discussion on Taking a gun away. within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Found this out on you tube. I like the whole move. Looks like it would be effective. The only part that bothered me was when ...
August 14th, 2007 09:50 PM
Taking a gun away.
Found this out on you tube. I like the whole move. Looks like it would be effective. The only part that bothered me was when he brushed back the guys hair. Not sure what was going on there.
Anyone practice these skills?
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft!
-- Theodore Roosevelt --
August 14th, 2007 10:25 PM
VIP Member (Retired Staff)
I think I prefer to be moving in such a way as to get at my own gun!! Or even better - be aware enough that I wasn't finding myself on the wrong end of a BG's gun in first place!
I can see this working if things are up real close - but my friend is distance all the way - by any means possible. All moves tho can have their place.
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member. "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."http://www.rkba-2a.com/
- a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.
August 14th, 2007 11:05 PM
I can see this working if things are up real close Gun disarms are for up close encounters with a gun within your arms reach, preferrable less.
Distance is your friend, but if it starts in your face, distance [ meaning moving further away from the thread ] and trying to gain some distance is not the best option one has at their disposal.
I prefer to move off the line of the muzzle with the upper body while at the same time taking control of the weapon and moving INTO the aggressor.
In the video presented here, he moves away from the threat initially, and in that same instant, could have just turned the upper body and grabbed the gun while moving at the threat, jamming him.
The video presented a fairly complicated take away once control of the weapon ocurred. There are much simpler techniques than that once the weapon is touched.
This link will take people to the first part of a disarm on a police officer. I could not use the followup which puts the gun muzzle back on the attacker/aggressor as we were using 38cal blanks.
The second video further in the thread shows the full takedown, or takeway of the firearm. Not a lot going on except immediate control of the weapon and the man, with very little movement.
One from behind is just as effective but I don't have a clip of it up anywhere. The two clips in the link are from 1993 and 2002 respectively.
August 14th, 2007 11:16 PM
Very interesting. I think the brushing back of the hair was to better display the ear as he was talking about shoving the elbow into the ear. Pressure against the ear can hurt.
I thought it was good.
August 15th, 2007 03:30 AM
Originally Posted by AzQkr
I can't claim to be an expert at this, but the disarms I've learned are a lot simpler. They differ in detail depending on what level the gun is at, but they all start with one hand grabbing the wrist as you move off the muzzle. The other hand grabs the gun and then the wrist and the gun go in opposite directions. This won't leave the assailant in a submission hold on the ground, but it gets the gun out of their hand!
August 15th, 2007 07:52 AM
That's just a simple throw common to several arts and is actually a generic weapon take-away. I learned that as a counter against sticks.
A gun take-away should be simple, direct, and to the point. The ones I was taught involve getting the muzzle out of my face while hitting one of the several pressure points on the arm. IMNSHO, a disarming technique should consist of no more than three moves, and two of those should be executed after the muzzle is safely away from you.
One of these days I'll have broadband - I'm in one of the few areas of the county that doesn't have it yet - and I'll post some vids. Perhaps we can set up an exchange of sorts.
August 15th, 2007 09:46 AM
Similar to Kotegaeshi in Aikido. I like my way better.
August 15th, 2007 10:40 AM
Everytime I see these types of videos, it makes me cringe. Its impossible to learn it by watching a video. I always fear some will thnk they can do it and try it after only watching a video.
"Just blame Sixto"
I reserve the right to make fun, point and laugh etc.
August 15th, 2007 12:52 PM
Brownie said pretty much what I was going to say...
my main objection to this one, as he pointed out, is that up until the guy actually steps in and gets both hands on the gun, he has ZERO control of the weapon. Even the BG's natural "flinch response" to having something grabbed from his hand (retracting the arms and bringing the elbows close to the body) would bring the muzzle back in line with the defender.
I'd also probably either stomp the guy or draw my own weapon after taking him down rather than getting down there with him but that's just me.
I put a couple of simple, but very consistent and effective techniques (thoroughly tested with airsoft) up a while back...IMO they are much more likely to be effective than this one.
"Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.Matt K.
August 15th, 2007 07:26 PM
I can just see so young martial arts guy searching for the hammer on a Glock!
August 15th, 2007 07:39 PM
Pure Aikido. Kotegaeshi, slightly modified.
Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; NRA Endowment Life; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.
August 15th, 2007 11:30 PM
In the video, his second move where the second hand touches the gun shows his elbow going high, exposing his torso to potential damage. The aggressor is just standing there not trying to get his own free hand on the gun to prevent the disarm or struggle.
It all happens very fast. This one will work, but as others have mentioned, there's some that are better and do not expose the defender to core damage.
The defender took the outside, that is IMO correct for many reasons.
August 15th, 2007 11:46 PM
I was thinking the same thing. Would the rest of the move actually be able to be followed through with if your hand is on the slide of a gun that has just been fired? (even if that shot was no where near you)
Originally Posted by Colin
~~~the biggest deficit of the general public is a lack of personal accountability.. I have no one to blame for my actions, regardless of circumstances, except myself and by the same token I can hold no one else responsible for my protection and well being other than myself~~~
August 16th, 2007 10:27 AM
Would the rest of the move actually be able to be followed through with if your hand is on the slide of a gun that has just been fired?
Yes, KellyCooper, you can still control the weapon after it has been fired with your hand on same. The technique I have used since 1981, the same one shown in the links in my previous post has been used with blanks.
If the gun goes off, the hand will keep the slide from cycling and rechambering another round. In the case of the revo, the gun can't be fired as the cylinder is bound at the same time the gun is grabbed. Even if the revo were to go off with your hand partially over the cylinder, some powder burn may ocurr but it is nothing one can't work through.
The main principle to remember is that once you start the disarm, you keep control of the weapon at all costs, and that means if it is uncomfortably warm, so what--you are alive and hands heal.
My mentors were very explicit about not worrying about this aspect of the disarm should it ocurr. One of the reasons I like using blanks whenever possible.
BTW-I've been shot just three times in the chest with blanks in thousands of attempts since 81 using this particular skill set. They hurt like hell, but it's no big deal compared to the alternative of not practicing these skills. I don't allow students to disarm and potentially take blanks in training as I do.
The disarm is serious business for serious situations. I've found most people don't want any part of using blanks in practice. Thats fair enough and quite understandable actually. There are those who will train hard enough to overcome the discomfort and those who won't. Using blanks, you get immune to the gun going off while handled or touching your body in a struggle and can learn to fight through any pain, staying focused on the objective.
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