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Gun goes off in hand while disarming

This is a discussion on Gun goes off in hand while disarming within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; A scenario where it makes sense to utilize this daring action is the one that took place this past year in South Carolina. The serial ...

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Thread: Gun goes off in hand while disarming

  1. #31
    Member Array erichard's Avatar
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    A scenario where it makes sense to utilize this daring action is the one that took place this past year in South Carolina. The serial killer there had his two workers captive and alive initially before he executed the male partner of the couple right before the eyes of his girlfriend. It's clear the couple was not being robbed and that the gunman was not going to allow release of his victims lest he be arrested. In that type of case, this kind of disarming training would definitely pay off. At that point, you have nothing to lose and everything to win. There's no upside to complying for the male victim, and he could have predicted this. The girl of course complied and made it through, but her poor male friend had no utility for this psychopath. She's very lucky they investigated the last location of the last ping from her phone, although it's amazing it took so long to actually do it.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Array GpTom's Avatar
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    Good thing the bad guy is standing the proper distance away. Otherwise you might as well take your chances at rolling out and going for your weapon. Probably pays to practice ducking just in case.

  3. #33
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    Which is why it is important to offline.
    My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.

    And Lord, if today is truly the day you call me home
    Let me die in a pile of empty brass."
    Amen

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  5. #34
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    Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson was disbelieved when he described how his weapon malfunctioned; he was unable to explain what had occurred (understandable in some measure) and the Grand Jury prosecutor did not believe him. Reason: they could not fathom that, according to Off. Wilson, Michael Brown grabbed his semi auto SIG and one round was fired. Then Off. Wilson's weapon would not fire despite his pulling the trigger. Off. Wilson had to clear the malfunction once breaking it away from Michael Brown's grasp. The prosecutor's belief was, like a revolver when its cylinder is held will not fire, he wrongly thought that if Michael Brown really had hold of Off. Wilson's semi auto pistol that it too would not fire.

  6. #35
    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
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    That's why, IMHO, liberal, ambitious, over-zealous, publicity-hungry prosecutors should ALL be mandated to; move to the South, join the NRA, join (and learn, with frequent pop-quiz competence) from this forum, spend summer vacations tending hogs, and take general human-being lessons from the writings of Christ. We may-well be the last chance for these...poor, pitiable creatures.
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  7. #36
    Member Array Imnobody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichard View Post
    A scenario where it makes sense to utilize this daring action is the one that took place this past year in South Carolina. The serial killer there had his two workers captive and alive initially before he executed the male partner of the couple right before the eyes of his girlfriend. It's clear the couple was not being robbed and that the gunman was not going to allow release of his victims lest he be arrested. In that type of case, this kind of disarming training would definitely pay off. At that point, you have nothing to lose and everything to win. There's no upside to complying for the male victim, and he could have predicted this. The girl of course complied and made it through, but her poor male friend had no utility for this psychopath. She's very lucky they investigated the last location of the last ping from her phone, although it's amazing it took so long to actually do it.
    I think you have a misunderstandings of what happened in this case. The couple and the attacker were going to clear some land of brush for the attacker. The attacker went into a shed to get some tools and came out of the shed firing his gun and killed the male victim ambush style. There was no opportunity for the male victim to "predict" what was happening, no opportunity for the male victim to disarm his attacker, and no opportunity for the male victim to even fight back.

  8. #37
    Member Array mrtimm's Avatar
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    Interesting video. I like that disarm. It's what I teach, but slightly different.

    However, here's my one BIG pet peeve.

    If you're going to teach disarms, use a blue gun. There is NO excuse for using a real gun no matter how carefully you check it.

    Be a professional man!

  9. #38
    Senior Member Array jackrock's Avatar
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    I have tested this "grab the slide" deal personally.

    When I was going for my CHP, my instructor was doing far more than just the legal requirements. We actually did several hours of defensive training. Part of that was how to grab a slide, and the fact that it will fire once with the slide immobilized. One of the students had his hand a tad too far forward, and the muzzle blast broke the skin - just superficially. But there was no real damage to speak of, and I've shown it to others since.
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  10. #39
    Member Array JoeLiberty's Avatar
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    I had an instructor who directed us to grab the slide and fire our weapons. It was a little scary but not painful. The rationale was that such a technique may aid in retention and/or it will keep the slide in battery if you're contact distance or wrestling for the weapon.

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrtimm View Post
    Interesting video. I like that disarm. It's what I teach, but slightly different.

    However, here's my one BIG pet peeve.

    If you're going to teach disarms, use a blue gun. There is NO excuse for using a real gun no matter how carefully you check it.

    Be a professional man!
    Interesting, as there weren't blue gun available in 81 when I was trained by an OSS agent and his cadre of instructors. With the mentality of ONLY using a blue gun, no one would have had the opportunity to learn the disarms back then.

    Is it for the feint of heart? Probably not. But judiciously checking and rechecking the real gun is unloaded before the training starts is perfectly acceptable. Has been for a very long time with some of the professionals I've been involved in as far back as the mid 70's. I don't recommend anyone do it as a matter of course, for safety reasons, but I've been training with the live guns [ unloaded ] for 36 years since counter terr training, just as I was afforded the training by mentors.

    An empty/unloaded gun isn't much of a concern for those who've been exposed to training like this. This seems like far too much risk to play like this, but then, the guy defending from being shot has a LOT risk management training in skills than many, if not most, of the people who are watching it do not.

    If you don't have the speed, the dexterity, the training, or mindset to attempt this, don't. If you do have all those necessary requirements, it's really not much of a big deal to take guns from turds trying to control your world. And make no mistake about it, the mentality behind sticking a gun in your face or on your body is to control you, not shoot/kill you. If that was the goal, they'd just shoot you and take what they want off your lifeless body.

    Ya, it seems like there's no excuse for using real guns that are unloaded until it does. I understand few will ever get to this level of training who carry. Then there's people who take training to a next level. A blue gun will not give you the same feedback, I assure you. In the example below, we made sure the gun WAS loaded, not unloaded.

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  12. #41
    VIP Member Array PAcanis's Avatar
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    We used real guns back in the eighties, too.
    We emptied our weapons, checked them, then handed them to our partner to check, as he would ultimately be on the receiving end.
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  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAcanis View Post
    We used real guns back in the eighties, too.
    We emptied our weapons, checked them, then handed them to our partner to check, as he would ultimately be on the receiving end.
    How dare you suggest using real guns that are unloaded is/was an acceptable practice. You should be ashamed of yourself for training that way. -------------

    Wait one, isn't the training more important than waiting for a blue gun to be developed? lol
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  14. #43
    Senior Member Array Deej6519's Avatar
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    I bet this doesn't work as well with a ported barrel, ok it may still work but I believe you will have a nasty burn from it.

  15. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    How dare you suggest using real guns that are unloaded is/was an acceptable practice. You should be ashamed of yourself for training that way. -------------

    Wait one, isn't the training more important than waiting for a blue gun to be developed? lol
    I wondered why I never heard of blue guns until I started bending kydex a few years ago
    Besides, how is a blue gun going to tell you if you've pushed the slide back far enough the gun won't fire, or a revolver cylinder won't turn?
    I think, as I'm sure you think, there are some things for which there is no substitute.
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  16. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deej6519 View Post
    I bet this doesn't work as well with a ported barrel, ok it may still work but I believe you will have a nasty burn from it.
    I've NEVER seen a ported gun used in the wild by a BG, thus it's so far removed from the realm of possibility as to be irrelevant.
    The mind is the limiting factor

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