How Fast Are You When Speedloading Your Snub?

How Fast Are You When Speedloading Your Snub?

This is a discussion on How Fast Are You When Speedloading Your Snub? within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hello, I need to know if I'm on par, behind par, or ahead of par on this issue. I received my speedloader and belt pouch ...

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Thread: How Fast Are You When Speedloading Your Snub?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Joshua M. Smith's Avatar
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    How Fast Are You When Speedloading Your Snub?

    Hello,

    I need to know if I'm on par, behind par, or ahead of par on this issue.

    I received my speedloader and belt pouch yesterday. I found i had to modify my Pachmayer grips and the old style cylinder latch in order for it to work, but no big deal. Still have to reblue the cylinder latch though.

    Anyway, today I started practicing with the speedloader, just using dummy rounds.

    The drill was

    1. Bring revolver down from target

    2. Switch hands, break open, work extractor 3x with my thumb while grabbing the speedloader out of the pouch

    3. Point muzzle down, drop dummy rounds in

    4. Close cylinder and switch back to lefty grip

    I could do this in 3-5 seconds after I got practiced (I'd already been using the whole technique for years but loading loose ammo instead of using a speedloader). If I hurried, I messed up, and had to start over.

    Live fire, 30 rounds:

    First fire, reload, fire: Cases all extracted properly, but two live rounds hung up instead of dropping in. Dirty ammo.

    Second fire, reload, fire: I emptied the gun then ran to a ladder (nearest concealment). While running I broke the action and ejected the shells. Squatted down behind the ladder, I had to "play" with the speedloader a bit to line up the round to the holes.

    Third fire, reload, fire: Case extraction failure. The chambers were getting carboned. Had to clear them manually to use the speedloader.

    Also, in cold practice, I can reload just fine without looking. In live fire, I have to look. Which is the preferred method, and which do you use?

    I guess my main concerns are sticking cases and not being able to line the holes up quick enough should I ever have to use that reload "for real."

    Any tips, tricks, etc would be appreciated. I know lining up the holes is a practice thing, but how about if the cases stick, or the rounds stick, keeping them from dropping into the chamber?

    I do just drop the speedloader btw, and it falls away when I close the cylinder.

    Help?

    Thanks,

    Josh <><


  2. #2
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    Array rocky's Avatar
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    Sticking cases indicate either a dirty gun or tight chambers . When training /qualifying for the PD ,we shot S&W revos. even with all day training/ reloaded ammo , we did not see cases sticking in the chambers.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


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  3. #3
    Senior Member Array Joshua M. Smith's Avatar
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    I would say the chambers are a bit tight, but not too tight.

    It's just that combined with some practice stuff called Independence I'm shooting seemed to really gunk it up. There was what looked like black silly string trailing from the forcing cone out the muzzle!

    When I don't scrub it down after shooting it though, it at least gets a boresnake run through each of the chambers, twice. Make's 'em shiny.

    Josh <><

  4. #4
    Senior Member Array Knuckledrager's Avatar
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    Josh,

    Just the fact that you are taking the time to train says that you are already ahead of the curve! Your drill seems realistic and use of movement and cover is great. What revolver are you using? What speedloaders are you using? Which ammo? Is the placement of the ammo on your person the same as you carry day to day? Sorry about all of the questions. I'm in the process of developing a block of instruction for the small revolvers for LE BUG use.

    KD

  5. #5
    Senior Member Array Joshua M. Smith's Avatar
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    What revolver are you using?
    Rossi M68

    What speedloaders are you using?
    HKS 36 and HKS speedloader pouch.

    Which ammo?
    It varies for practice; this stuff is called Independence and is 130gr FMJ. It's very dirty though and wouldn't recommend it.

    For carry I use Gold Dot 135gr+P in the revolver and an FBI load in the speedloader (the profile makes for easier loading for me).

    Is the placement of the ammo on your person the same as you carry day to day?
    Yes, it is.

    Sorry about all of the questions.
    That's just fine. Glad to help!

    Josh <><

  6. #6
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    Josh,

    I took my revolver to Gunsite to an advanced handgun course. I quickly learned that there is a huge difference in what you can do without pressure and what you can do under pressure.

    Revolvers are simply difficult to reload under pressure. Three seconds would be an outstanding reload time - that is if you could do that everytime. Six seconds would be more like it unless you really work at diligently. I think at my peak, I was running 4-6 seconds and the faster I went, the more likely I was to muff one. And muffing one is not alright. If we muff one reload in training, what would happen in reality.

    Why are you speed reloading a revolver anyway?
    I'm too young to be this old!
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  7. #7
    Senior Member Array Joshua M. Smith's Avatar
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    Why are you speed reloading a revolver anyway?
    For the times it must go from being my backup to my main carry gun.

    I usually carry it in my right pocket to take over duties if my main gun on my left side should break, or if my left arm should become damaged. I usually do not carry a reload for it then, just the 9mm.

    But, I don't ever like being limited to five shots. If I'm in a situation where I can't carry my fullsize gun, I probably cannot carry a NY reload. But, I may be able to squeeze in a reload for the revolver.

    Josh <><

  8. #8
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    Josh,

    All due respect and all, but where you gonna find 4-6 seconds in a gunfight?

    Based on all the accounts I can find and read, civilians reloading to continue a gunfight is very rare. There are some, but very few and very rare.

    The problem is, if you've just fired 5 shots in a gunfight and it's not over, you desperately need to be shooting, not pausing 4-6 seconds for a reload. I have said this before and am still convinced it's true - you will finish a gunfight with the ammo in your gun when it starts.

    You need both time and opportunity to reload; if either is unavailable, you can't reload. If you anticipate you'll need more than five rounds, rather than depending on an iffy, time consuming reload why not carry a gun with more rounds in it to start with?

    I think the difference is in mindset. One, five shots and reload, is planning to run the gun dry in a gunfight and hoping you'll have time and opportunity to reload. The other mindset is carrying enough rounds in the gun so you don't have to reload.
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  9. #9
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    The problem is, if you've just fired 5 shots in a gunfight and it's not over, you desperately need to be shooting, not pausing 4-6 seconds for a reload. I have said this before and am still convinced it's true - you will finish a gunfight with the ammo in your gun when it starts.

    You need both time and opportunity to reload; if either is unavailable, you can't reload. If you anticipate you'll need more than five rounds, rather than depending on an iffy, time consuming reload why not carry a gun with more rounds in it to start with?

    I think the difference is in mindset. One, five shots and reload, is planning to run the gun dry in a gunfight and hoping you'll have time and opportunity to reload. The other mindset is carrying enough rounds in the gun so you don't have to reload.


    My sentiments exactly.

    I'd add this to Tangles posted thoughts as well.

    I ocassionally carry a 5 shot J frame as a BUG with the idea that if I have run my CZ [15 rds ]; G17 [ 18 rds ] BHP [ 14 rds ] dry, it's there to fire while I extricate myself from the area.

    I prefer a 9 shot BUG in the P7, or a 7 shot Kahr pm9 over the revos myself. The BUG's in my pocket or appendix could be used as a primary, carried just to start the action while I'm moving and drawing the highcap real primary, in that role it would be sifficient allowing the time to get the real shooter up and running.

    I don't carry a 5 shooter ever as a primary since a very long time ago for the very reason of low rds on tap before I'm in a heap of trouble [ already there if you are emptying the gun to begin with ].

    You'll normally not have time to reload in a battle before it's over one way or the other. Rds on tap better be enough to see you through about anything you're likely to run into on the streets.

    Brownie
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    Quick Kill Rifle and Pistol Instructor

  10. #10
    Member Array LastManOut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knuckledrager View Post
    Josh,

    Just the fact that you are taking the time to train says that you are already ahead of the curve! Your drill seems realistic and use of movement and cover is great. What revolver are you using? What speedloaders are you using? Which ammo? Is the placement of the ammo on your person the same as you carry day to day? Sorry about all of the questions. I'm in the process of developing a block of instruction for the small revolvers for LE BUG use.

    KD
    KD, If you can make this class, it will give you a lot of good info to use for your training. http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...ad.php?t=31744

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Let me put it this way. If I have to use my S&W M642, I'd better make the first five shots count. Then I'd better be secure in a well covered position before I grab the first of 2 speedloaders to reload.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  12. #12
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    Since you carry a revolver you and train with it, you're light years ahead of many that carry. I think your times are pretty good, and in a j-frame under rapid fire with practice ammo and quick reloads the expanded cases aren't often as easily ejected. A friend with decades of revolver experience promotes and prefers medium sized revolvers for their full extractor capabilities and more rounds for this reason. Type of speedloader can make a differnce too, cutsomized gun with moon clips vs. Safariland comp vs. HKS vs. Bianchi speed strips, probably in order of speed to fill.

    Though I'm a fan of a NY reload, and think that SA's are a better choice as primary, when it comes to pocket carry, not all can afford to purchase a small SA with faster reload and capacity.

    I would agree that if you are entering into a higher risk environment a SA with spare magazines is preferable, though I always carry a 5 shot j-frame as a BUG, but how many are lucky enough to exercise that option all the time? I rather pocket carry a reliable five shot and be able to work within it's limits, including reloads under stress seeking cover and retreat.

    Carrying two guns is always better than counting on a successful reload, though I still carry spare ammo.

  13. #13
    Member Array Mad_Max's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua M. Smith View Post
    Hello,

    I need to know if I'm on par, behind par, or ahead of par on this issue.

    I received my speedloader and belt pouch yesterday. I found i had to modify my Pachmayer grips and the old style cylinder latch in order for it to work, but no big deal. Still have to reblue the cylinder latch though.

    Anyway, today I started practicing with the speedloader, just using dummy rounds.

    The drill was

    1. Bring revolver down from target

    2. Switch hands, break open, work extractor 3x with my thumb while grabbing the speedloader out of the pouch

    3. Point muzzle down, drop dummy rounds in

    4. Close cylinder and switch back to lefty grip

    I could do this in 3-5 seconds after I got practiced (I'd already been using the whole technique for years but loading loose ammo instead of using a speedloader). If I hurried, I messed up, and had to start over.

    Live fire, 30 rounds:

    First fire, reload, fire: Cases all extracted properly, but two live rounds hung up instead of dropping in. Dirty ammo.

    Second fire, reload, fire: I emptied the gun then ran to a ladder (nearest concealment). While running I broke the action and ejected the shells. Squatted down behind the ladder, I had to "play" with the speedloader a bit to line up the round to the holes.

    Third fire, reload, fire: Case extraction failure. The chambers were getting carboned. Had to clear them manually to use the speedloader.

    Also, in cold practice, I can reload just fine without looking. In live fire, I have to look. Which is the preferred method, and which do you use?

    I guess my main concerns are sticking cases and not being able to line the holes up quick enough should I ever have to use that reload "for real."

    Any tips, tricks, etc would be appreciated. I know lining up the holes is a practice thing, but how about if the cases stick, or the rounds stick, keeping them from dropping into the chamber?

    I do just drop the speedloader btw, and it falls away when I close the cylinder.

    Help?

    Thanks,

    Josh <><
    When I do a reload drill (which I do often) with my 442, I don't switch hands. It just never ocurred to me to do that since I reload an auto using my left.

  14. #14
    Member Array riverkeeper's Avatar
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    My Smith J was primary for a while til I was more than hassled a few times by groups of 2 and 3 bangers in my fair (soon to be former) city. So I switched to a piece with more bangs ... but.

    I love the J and tho I practiced with and occ carried a speed loader I was never satisfied with reload times.

    So I used speed strips with only 4 rounds 2 (space) 2 ... gave me a quick load of 2 and 2 more if not interrupted by BG. Slimmer profile for carry too.
    Old testament....Shooting to Live 1942
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  15. #15
    VIP Member Array Superhouse 15's Avatar
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    Reloads

    I find I'm a bit faster with the Speed Strip than a speed loader. Mostly due to lining up the rounds, clearing the grips, etc. I'm solidly in the 4 second range with it (tested it with my model 37 and some dummies). I'm about the same with my 940 and moon clips, BTW. When I used a revolver for CCW the majority of the time, I found the LSWCHP or Nyclads got beat up in the loaders when carried in pockets. If I used them or a semi-jacketed HP in the gun, I used something like a Hydra Shok or Cor Bon HP in the loaders. Something with a fully jacketed HP and no exposed lead. Nowadays Gold Dot or Saber will also work.

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