Training question one handed point shooting
This is a discussion on Training question one handed point shooting within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I grew up, taught, trained, practiced face your target two hands front sight focus front sight squeeze. More and more I am reading how over ...
September 7th, 2007 11:53 AM
Training question one handed point shooting
I grew up, taught, trained, practiced face your target two hands front sight focus front sight squeeze. More and more I am reading how over 80% of the time professionals who train like this resort to point shooting. Most often one handed as their other hand is doing something else. Even when they had adequate time to apply their training, they did not feel they had the time. So I have begun to change how I practice. I started out just setting up a couple of silhouettes and blasting at them double taps. Now, in my younger days I have gone a few rounds and as I was doing this I found that it was pretty much a fighting stance I was useing. Not squared off but lead foot tending to point at the target and pivoting moving more like I was fighting. The difference being I am leading with my right. I have to say this feels far more natural. I think I am a bit quicker but my shots though hitting center of mass are three to five maybe more like six inches apart with double taps on multiple targets. Thats 3 to 6 inches apart each target. Does anyone else train practice like this? If so. Are your spreads as bad as mine? Or am I a complete idiot with a gun? Any suggestions?
September 7th, 2007 11:53 AM
September 7th, 2007 01:09 PM
Always practice 2 hands, strong hand only, weak hand only. You need a full toolbox of techniques just in case. You should also practice reloads using only 1 hand if possible. A one handed grip does feel more natural to me also, but you do sacrafice by a larger spread.
Originally Posted by LongRider
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--- Some of the friendliest people I have ever talked to are gun owners and shooters and according to the gun activists we are the mass murders and felons of the nation???
September 7th, 2007 01:15 PM
I practice strong, weak and both hands. I prefer to shoot strong hand only.
If it was good enough for Hoppy, Gene and Roy, it's good enough for me.
If you give a man a fish, he will eat for a day. If you teach a man to fish, he will sit in a boat and drink beer.
September 7th, 2007 01:26 PM
As most of us probably agree, we need to practice with all methods and for me with strong hand 'point' shooting, I practice most from close retention - this being the point at which one can place a coupla shots .. possibly prior to rising up for a more aimed fire ... sometimes termed ''zippering''.
It is also worth adding in movement too I reckon. I would and do expect spread to be other than tight - but IMO as long as hits are good COM that does not matter.
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.
"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."
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September 7th, 2007 02:38 PM
You may not [ likely not ] get a chance to get into any "stance" of any kind on the streets in a SD scenario [ you will probably be moving out of the line of fire, off the line of attack, etc ]. I would suggest practicing one handed from various positions without worrying about foot placement until you are comfortable in that regard.
I think I am a bit quicker but my shots though hitting center of mass are three to five maybe more like six inches apart with double taps on multiple targets.
Don't worry about the 6 inch spread you are seeing as long as that 6" spread is COM, you'll be better served practicing one handed and reducing your shot splits [ time taken between each shot ]. The head is between 9-10 inches in diameter. The 6" spread you are seeing, if COM, would put every shot on the head, and you have a much bigger area to nail on the torso allowing for flyers to still hit their mark reliably.
Don't worry so much about small tiny little groups of shots. The objective [ at least for many of us ] is to get rds on threat COM and keep them there as fast as we can until the perp succumbs and is not longer a threa to us or others. You don't need tiny little groups to do that, you need multiple hits into the torso that make their organs bleed therby dropping blood pressure rapidly which results in shock and their ceasing to be able to function properly/adequately [ meaning they are a reduced or negated threat ].
Students in the ITFTS course I teach can make torso COM hits at 6-10 feet from directly behind them to directly in front of them and everything in between, and then do it on a flat out run, all one handed.
Don't get wrapped around an axle where your feet are placed. I'm not even conscious of where my feet are facing or which foot I'm balanced on as that really takes care of itself through proprioception/proprioceptive skills you've already developed in your normal lifes routines. In other words, when you walk, or step over an object or walk around an object, you don't have to consciously tell your feet/legs what to do, or how high to raise them/spread them to accomplish a task.
The ITFTS course involves extensive one handed skills training. If you watch vid cams of people under fire/taking rds or about to do so, they are not planting their feet but moving. FoF would show you almost immediately that if you plant yourself you'll get hit unless you have been preemptive and are ahead of the curve in that situation.
From your post, you are doing well one handed, now just try to maintain that group or open it up a little and gain some speed where shots per second is concerned.
Good luck sir.
The mind is the limiting factor
Quick Kill Rifle and Pistol Instructor
September 8th, 2007 05:18 PM
Thanks for the input makes me feel like I am on the right track. As I indicated previously in the past my shooting was less goal oriented just plinking having some fun The thinking being hey I can hit my target no problem if I ever needed to shoot in SD. So this is much different than what I have shot in the past. So much so that I questioned if I was wasting time being a goof. Who better to ask than the folks here. Turns out that was a great idea. To clarify so you have a better idea of what I am doing, to base your input on
I am using silhouette targets at ten to thirty feet. Beyond that my single handed misses increase expediently. I have three targets I use those portable PVC jobs that I can place in a half circle at varying distances. What I had said about stance and foot placement is a repeat of what I was observed doing when I was shooting. Rather than what I was doing consciously. It was described to to me, that it looked like I was throwing a punch. Actually my wife says it looks like when I do Kendo Kata but with a gun rather than a bokken (wood sword). So I passed that on to explain how I am shooting in case someone had some input on that. Once the observation was made. I did go with it. Changing my approach / thinking to being in a fist or sword fight rather than shooting targets. Since the idea was to practice what came natural to me and making that work for me. Rather than hope I resort to training under stress. The biggest change is that I dont even seem to see the gun much less the sights. The same way as if I was in a match I dont watch my hands or Shinai (bamboo sword), I focus on my opponent. Now my focus is on the target not the gun or sights and I am hitting center of mass but as I said not very tight groups. Which really does fly in the face of everything I have ever been taught. Thats why I started asking these questions. I do practice drawing and shooting while moving retreating advancing or parallel to single and multiple targets. I do reload while shooting/moving that is slower than in real life as I am careful to catch the empty mags and put them away. If I focus more than a double tap on a single target my left does come up and I drop into sighted shooting with nice little ragged holes. Thanks for the suggestions I am going to try some weak hand shooting. Though the draw will probably be very slow as I carry MOB or over my right rear pocket because of my stature and concealment issues. And I will start timing my shooting. Thanks for the input. Any other insights would be appreciated.
September 9th, 2007 12:16 AM
I remember going through the Police Academy and having to shoot weak hand baracade. I HATED it! The Amrorer pounded this point home: "in times of high stress (like a gunfight for your life), you will revert to what you learned in repetitive training." Yeah, right!
I had to draw my pistol twice while on duty and both times I was in such a position I had to go weak hand. It was instinct and I found myself holding my pistol in my weak hand. Gordon (God rest his soul) was right!
Practice, practice and more practice. Dry firing is a good off-hours method of training. Snap caps are recommended. The more trigger time you put in now, under varying situations and postures, the more likely you are to survive an encounter!
BE PREPARED - Noah didn't build the Ark when it was raining!
Si vis pacem, para bellum
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