Recent Force on Force Training I've Recieved
This is a discussion on Recent Force on Force Training I've Recieved within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The class I participated in "The Fight: Force on Force Scenerios" was held on Sept. 1 and 2, 2007, in Camden TN, and was taught ...
September 10th, 2007 02:08 PM
Recent Force on Force Training I've Recieved
The class I participated in "The Fight: Force on Force Scenerios" was held on Sept. 1 and 2, 2007, in Camden TN, and was taught by some of the best instructors in this country.
Tactical Response. (TR)
The Force-on-Force (FoF) class cost $400 for those who have taken Tactical Response (TR) two day "Fighting Pistol" class. They also provide a one day primer class, before the FoF class, for those who haven't trained with TR before. I'm sure that the instructors would be willing to accept other previous firearms training in place of primer as long as one could provide appropriate documentation.
What about the price? I'm not saying they should have charged more, but after taking this class,
I would willing pay $1000 for it. It was worth much more than the $400.
Basically, the class involves a series of real-life scenerios that gunfights may or may not occur. Specifically, three actors play "bad guys" within well planned scenarios. The firearms used are modified Glock 17's which shoot UMT (similar to simunition) rounds. In other words, the targets SHOOT BACK!
It involves multiple confrontations, ranging from normal to downright violent encounters,
split second life-altering decisions, and in some, fighting for your (or someone elses) life with a gun.
It did not stop there. We also had to follow through, with 911 calls, (using simulated cellphones) ultimately dealing with the Law.
I will not go into specifics on the actual scenerios, but I would like to share a few "very valuable lessons" (of many) I have learned in this most "extrordinary" class:
1). Your Ego can get you killed.
2). The Tache-Psyche effect (google it) is very real.
3). Life is worth MUCH MORE than a wallet, a car, a stereo, etc.
4). After a justified self-defense shooting, TAKE CHARGE. Call 911 yourself if at all possible.
5). After a justified shooting, and the police arrive, Shut the hell up! Everything you say WILL BE USED AGAINST YOU!
1) and 3). Before I attended this class, I felt that I would be willing to fight someone over the possession of my wallet, car, etc. I would draw and fight with a gun........ This class proved to me that this was a SURE WAY TO GET KILLED, and also could lead to the death of innocent others, and others whom I love. Your life is simply worth much more than measly possessions. Never, Never, try to draw on a drawn gun....If the bad guy (BG) starts shooting, then you have no choice, thats a different matter. You may be very angry after being robbed, assaulted, etc, but once the threat is gone, swallow your pride, do what needs to be done and be thankfull you are still alive.
2). Tunnel Vision. Its real. I was injured in this class because of severe stress and tunnel vision. When one is accosted with violence, their brain shuts down, and their instinctive fight/flight response gets kicked into "high gear". Reasoning is out the door. I found that I was able to fight, but completely unable to flight. Oh, I tried to run, but didn't get far. I experienced severe "literal" tunnel vision. My peripheral vision no longer worked. After an initial confrontation, even after the threat was gone, I started to panic and run.
I fell, in a very bad way, almost breaking my arm during the scenerio. The next morning, I looked where I fell and noticed that I fell between two trees that were separated by only five feet. When I fell the day before, I NEVER SAW THOSE TREES! If I couldn't see those trees, I most assuredly couldn't see the uneven ground on which I ran! Tunnel vision is REAL! If you run, you will fall!
I would like to add some more in terms of Tache-Psyche effect. My wife asked me how we could get so worked up in the scenarios when we “deep down” knew they were not real. When the adrenaline kicks in, the main thinking part of the brain, the cerebrum, partially shuts down, and your actions will be dominated by the instinctive parts of your brain, the cerebellum and the brain stem. These parts of your brain control the “fight/flight” actions. The reasoning part of the brain, which knew that these scenarios were “not real”, was basically shut down. Thus, once the scenario began, the knowledge that it was “not actually real” became irrelevant/invisible. Only those who have actually been through the scenarios will fully understand what I’m saying. This is one of the reasons that all participants were searched twice for any weapons before the scenarios started.
4). Its important to try and make the 911 call yourself, if at all possible. If you allow other bystanders to call, they may not provide the correct information to the 911 dispatch operators. Other bystanders will also be under extreme stress, especially if they were involved in the incident. What if the bystander were anti-gun, or anti-self-defense?
5). After a violent encounter, the stress one feels doesn’t just stop. The adrenaline in one’s system continues to affect your body long after the incident. Since the main part of the brain, the cerebrum, which handles reasoning, memory, and speech, may still be only partially working, speech will be difficult. You may stutter, say things occurred out of order, say things that could be taken out context, or say things that are down-right stupid.
The best advice, is to simply give police your name, address etc. Tell them that you will give all the details in 24 to 72 hours after you consult your attorney. Even police officers involved in shootings consult with attorneys before giving details.
In summary, I would have to say that this was “the best” firearms training class I have ever attended. The lessons I learned, which there are much more than just the ones listed above, are invaluable. Even though I am a staunch supporter of the 2nd Amendment (I am a NRA Life Member) I almost feel that this type of class should be mandatory for one possessing a pistol permit. By mandatory, I mean one should be mandated to take a class like this within 1 year or so after first receiving their permit. Or maybe, one could have the permit renewal fee “waived” if one has taken a class as this.
This FoF was a real “eye-opener”.
September 10th, 2007 02:08 PM
September 10th, 2007 04:16 PM
Thanks for your in-depth review! As a new handgunner, it certainly looks like something I should invest in. Plus, it gives me a reason another reason to go to TN. Thanks!
September 10th, 2007 05:05 PM
I believe that force on force training is something that everyone who carries a gun should experience.
It really illustrates the saying, "the fight is what it is; not what you want it to be".
Now that you have taken the course, the ideal thing would be to find like minded people in your area to regularly meet for FOF practice sessions.
With Airsoft pistols, you could get all the gear you need for around $200.
I love reviews like this. They get me fired up to sign up for another course (if She Who Must Be Obeyed will let me )
fortiter in re, suaviter in modo (resolutely in action, gently in manner).
September 10th, 2007 07:39 PM
So...how many little quarter sized bruises do you have ?
I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.
AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
Like custom guns and stuff? Check this out...
September 10th, 2007 08:02 PM
I plan on taking the tactical course there this fall. It's good to hear such a positive review on the place. Great info. Thankss
September 10th, 2007 11:07 PM
very informative, thank you.
September 11th, 2007 08:24 AM
Four in front and one in back!
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