Recent training: LMS Defense and Valhalla...

This is a discussion on Recent training: LMS Defense and Valhalla... within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This could also be titled, "a very cool way to spend a week of vacation". The LMS Defense crew ( http://www.lmsdefense.com ) was invited out ...

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Thread: Recent training: LMS Defense and Valhalla...

  1. #1
    New Member Array cryptojunkie's Avatar
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    Recent training: LMS Defense and Valhalla...

    This could also be titled, "a very cool way to spend a week of vacation".

    The LMS Defense crew (http://www.lmsdefense.com) was invited out to Valhalla (http://www.valhallashootingclub.com) by Rob Pincus to do some training. The 2 day Pistol 1 LMS Defense class was followed by a 2 day Combat Focus Shooting class at Valhalla. What follows is my AAR for both classes.

    It is significant to note, that while both classes were different, they complimented each other nicely. The instruction offered by both could go along way to increasing your ability to fight with your handgun.

    In the end, it was a unique opportunity to train with two top tier training companies at a fantastic location. LMS Defense offers many classes across the nation, and Valhalla is based in Colorado, but travels as well.

    --

    AAR - September 3-4, 2007

    LMS Defense

    Class: Pistol I

    Location: Valhalla Training Center (San Juan Range) - Montrose, CO

    Instructors:
    - John Chapman
    - Troy Price
    - Kevin W.


    The 2 day class started with introductions and a safety and medical briefing each day.


    Subject matter covered included:

    Shooting mechanics - grip, stance, drawstroke, presentation, ready positions and marksmanship fundamentals (trigger control, sight alignment, sight picture and follow through) through instruction and/or drills.

    Weapon manipulations - loading, reloading (emergency, speed), malfunction clearing (type I, II, III malfunctions), one handed reloading and weak hand only reloading

    Technique - shooting while moving (forward, backward, sideways), shooting at distance, shooting from unconventional positions, medium to long range pistol shooting with accuracy

    Tactics - using cover & concealment and movement


    Every item covered was explained in detail and sometimes demonstrated if need be. The instructors each had input into the class, and provided an exceptional amount of real world experience in their teachings.

    The class really provided a lot of drill time that helped solidify the lessons with repetition. The students in the class were of various backgrounds and experience yet the drills were able to challenge everyone at their own level.

    At the end of each day, a qualification course of fire was utilized both as a measurement and a learning tool.

    The differentiators for this class was the attention on making good hits under pressure, practical approach for each student's capabilities, the ratio of instructors to students, quality of instruction without dogma, and the breadth of subjects covered. The class provided tools to enable the student to continue their training once back home.

    I wholeheartedly endorse LMS Defense's instructors and classes for beginner and experienced students, it will challenge and reward both.

    It was a fantastic and fun class. I can't wait to train with Chappy, Troy and Kevin again!


    --


    AAR - September 5-6

    Class: Combat Focus Shooting

    Location: Valhalla Shooting Club - Montrose, CO

    Instructors:
    - Rob Pincus
    - John Brown
    - Jeremiah Miles


    The class started with a lecture that was based on the material covered in Rob's book. A side note about the book; get it, read it.

    Basically, at it's essence Combat Focus Shooting is what you would tell your wife or child that needed to shoot someone breaking through the bedroom door and you were only given only 30 seconds time to explain it. Would you go into stance, grip, sight picture, sight alignment, yada yada? You only have 30 seconds to tell them how to defend themselves, what do you say? 1. Point the gun at the bad guy. 2. Touch the trigger. 3. Press the trigger.

    It is NOT Col. Applegate's point shooting. It is an intuitive shooting method, based on the foundational goal of Combat Accuracy. Combat Accuracy is your ability to quickly put enough rounds into a threat that will make the threat stop. Obviously if you are too far away, or shooting too fast, your Combat Accuracy will decrease. You will learn in this class how far away without using your sights you can be AND how fast you can shoot before you have to slow down to still be Combat Accurate.

    Rob explained how the training center was essentially a good lab. Let me explain; due to the nature of the shooting club residing on the Elk Mountain Resort, they get some people that are not there for the training center. They have a number of people that visit that have never trained before and take advantage of Valhalla while they're at the resort with their families. Rob went on to explain that in the years that he has been running this "experiment" he has seen complete handgun neophytes come in, learn the system, and by the end of class are doing well.

    It IS a class that absolutely requires an open mind of those that have had prior training. But, I was in the class with some top tier trigger pullers with 15-20 years of deep training, and they provided a good example of how to take this class with an open mind.

    Some of the items that I struggled with most were the weapons manipulations and my "happy feet". The weapons manipulations are done at reference point called the "high compressed ready". It does make sense in the context of the shooting method taught. You have to trust them enough to learn it.

    The instructors are all top notch. They are very articulate, knowledgable, and experienced. They provide the training at your level, which with this class was quite a challenge for them. We had the complete range of experience in the class, from novice to combat-proven shooters. The instructors were able to keep all the cats in the herd, and insure everyone was getting what they needed to learn in the class.

    Facilities:

    I have no frame of reference for the shoot house. It was the first time I've ever been in a "shoot house". I can tell you this, it is way freakn cool. (That is a technical term) Lighting effects, pop out targets, 3D reactive targets, hostages, innocents, cars, bars, bedrooms, living rooms, stores, it is a freakn disneyland OD'ed on testosterone.

    Hotel:

    The hotel is first class. The rooms are at a bargain rate if you're taking a class. Don't stay in town, stay at the resort. The staff will absolutely take care of you. The chef is fantastic, and can make you look forward to dinner time.


    Conclusion:

    You owe it to yourself to take a vacation, get out to Colorado and take this class. It is worth well more than the money and time you will spend. No matter your experience, you will learn a lot about how to shoot and a lot about yourself.

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Array purple88yj's Avatar
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    Very nice. Thanks for the write up. I have been dreaming of the day, or should I say week, that I can go to Valhalla, as well as the other facilities around the nation.

    This just gets the excitement level up one more notch. One day.
    "A simple way to take measure of a country is to look at how many want in ... And how many want out." British Prime Minister Tony Blair

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    Member Array Troy Price's Avatar
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    purple,

    Where is the Piedmont Triad located in NC? The reason I ask is many top notch trainers come to North Carolina to train. I have trained with Larry Vickers twice this year, for not a lot of money. And I know of several other companies that come to NC including SouthNarc, TigerSwan, Bennie Cooley, and the one I am a member of: LMSDefense.

    Don't think to have world class training you have to go to a world class facility. Often quality training can be had after driving a few hours.

    To stay on topic though, I attended the Combat Focus Shooting Course and I thought the training and the facility were outstanding. While I am not the follower, or teacher, of one single way; Combat Focus Shooting is the perfect course for someone's initial training experience.

    Rob and his staff take shooters, new and experienced alike, and have them performing proficiently with a matter of minutes. If you had only thirty seconds to explain shooting to someone before they had to engage a threat, those thirty seconds would be well spent explaining the fundamentals of CFS: extend, touch, press.

    I must say that I am an experienced shooter and instructor; I have added some of the CFS techniques into my own personal skillset.
    Last edited by Troy Price; October 7th, 2007 at 09:10 PM.
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    troyprice@lmsdefense.com

    It is not the ability to master the extraordinary that makes a warrior special; what makes a warrior special is the ability to master the basics extraordinarily well. - (author unknown)

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    Senior Member Array purple88yj's Avatar
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    The Piedmont Triad is Winston-Salem/High Point/Greensboro as opposed to the Triangle (Raleigh/Durham/Cary).

    I am just outside of the Triad a little further north in King.
    "A simple way to take measure of a country is to look at how many want in ... And how many want out." British Prime Minister Tony Blair

  6. #5
    Member Array Troy Price's Avatar
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    Ok. Thanks.
    Deputy Director of Training
    LMSDefense
    www.lmsdefense.com
    troyprice@lmsdefense.com

    It is not the ability to master the extraordinary that makes a warrior special; what makes a warrior special is the ability to master the basics extraordinarily well. - (author unknown)

  7. #6
    Senior Member Array purple88yj's Avatar
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    As far as training goes, I would love for nothing more than to be able to attend every school out there. Now if only I can hit that stinking lottery.

    I enjoy learning from everyone regarding this obsession (as my wife has often put it) we call a hobby. I been shooting for nearly thirty years, and carrying for thirteen of those years, and still know that there is a lot more that I can learn.
    "A simple way to take measure of a country is to look at how many want in ... And how many want out." British Prime Minister Tony Blair

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    Crypto...

    Great report! Just incredible! Glad you had a great experience!

    Watching the segments Rob Pincus did on Personal Defense TV on season one, I quickly added Valhalla to my agenda of places to go!

    If I may ask... what is a ball park figure for the price you spent at Valhalla? Including room at the lodge and the courses for the 4 days.

    Just trying to figure out how much to save or how many EMT classes I need to teach.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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    New Member Array cryptojunkie's Avatar
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    Keep in mind, these were two separate training classes (they did give a special rate for students that took both as I did, but I put list prices below).

    I'll itemize.

    LMS Defense Pistol I class: $400
    Ammo: ~1100 rounds of 9mm (any ammo)

    Valhalla CFS class: $450
    Ammo: ~1100 rounds of 9mm (Frangible only)

    Elk Mountain Resort: ~$150.00 a night (special rate)
    Food: ~$20 per lunch or dinner

    I flew into Montrose, CO on Delta. (Cincinnati->SLC->Montrose)

    The important thing to keep in mind was that this was 2 separate 2 day classes in a week, kinda expensive at first glance because that's a lot of jack to spend in one week. But...I believe that it was well worth the money, considering what I got out of it.

    The Elk Mtn Resort is a no BS 5 star resort. It is on 275 acres in the middle of multiple thousands of acres of BLM land. But still only about an 45 min drive to Telluride and 20 minutes to Montrose.

    The resort does cater to some very high rollers (they have several 3 bedroom large cabins that go for quite a bit more), but us simpletons that play with guns get a break on the regular hotel rooms, which are very, very nice.

    It's a very rustic but nice resort. The whole place makes you want to go out and kill something with a spear, and bring it back to be cooked by the gourmet chef.

  10. #9
    Member Array Rob Pincus's Avatar
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    Thanks for the report, Crypto and for the back-up, Troy.

    For those of you interested in training at Valhalla... of course, we'd love to have you.... but, as Troy noted, there is plenty of good training available "on the road"... even from us.

    In addition to LMS and the others Troy mentioned, Louise Awerbuck is one of the best instructors around and he teaches all over the US.

    While it is flattering, it doesn't do anyone any good to save up dollars for a big trip to train at VTC (or any other school), if they go without training for an extended period hoping that they don't need the skills!

    -Rob

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