Shoot 'Til He Drops? - Page 2

Shoot 'Til He Drops?

This is a discussion on Shoot 'Til He Drops? within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I've been trained in two approaches to this: From Jeff Gonzales: He teaches a non-standard approach of 1 to 5 shot to COM, then 1 ...

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Thread: Shoot 'Til He Drops?

  1. #16
    Member Array TwoRavens's Avatar
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    I've been trained in two approaches to this:

    From Jeff Gonzales:
    He teaches a non-standard approach of 1 to 5 shot to COM, then 1 to 5 to head if needed.
    According to Jeff the most probable reason for a failure to stop from 2 COM shots is that you missed. He also stated that the head is a difficult shot because its smaller and more mobile than the COM, and is armoured; further regular IIIA vests will not stop 4 or 5 successive hits within a 4" group (if they have a traume plate this wont work!). Five shots to COM, even if stopped by armour should sufficiently stun them to allow a head shot(s)
    He regards pelvis shots as a last resort.


    Stu Nakamura teaches 'Four no more' to COM follwed by same to head and then shoot the pockets or pelvis.

    FWIW there have been cases of people surviving headshots...


    I do think that just training for double taps is a bad idea, especially if they happen to have body armour: Tyler Shooting

    Be nice to have stats on the use of body armour by bad guys
    /***********
    Phill
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    "Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate"
    William of Ockham (ca. 1285-1349)


  2. #17
    Member Array TwoRavens's Avatar
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    On another note, the SAS SOP is for each guy in a stick behind the point man to put a head shot into every BG they go past... made getting IDs on the Iranian embassy terrorists difficult
    /***********
    Phill
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    "Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate"
    William of Ockham (ca. 1285-1349)

  3. #18
    Senior Member Array KC135's Avatar
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    I still like 'find them, fix them, fight them, finish them'.

    The reason for the pelvic shot is 'fix them'. Much easier to finish the job (stop agressive action) if the person is 'fixed'...non mobile.

    Way too many misses of the magic triangle in head shooting, even at close range in training, and more so if you are shooting on the move. Add that the other guy is shooting at you and may also be on the move.

    I will continue to shoot as long as my opponent is agressive. I will stop to evaluate when I lose the sight picture.
    Keep the shotgun handy!!

  4. #19
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    when I lose the sight picture.
    Hopefully KC that is NOT due to loss of consciousness!!
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  5. #20
    Member Array TwoRavens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC135
    The reason for the pelvic shot is 'fix them'.
    Unfortunately that is not going to happen unless you nail one of the hip joints, which are only 2" in diameter. Handgun rounds tend to pass thru the pelvis without breaking it.
    /***********
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    "Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate"
    William of Ockham (ca. 1285-1349)

  6. #21
    Member Array Moondoggie's Avatar
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    My training in the Mozambique Technique was 2 in the chest & 1 in the head...then evaluate.

    A few weeks ago my IPSC club did a "dark" stage with hidden steel plates behind IPSC tgts covered by shirts. One tgt had the plate behind the head, and I had to bang away at it with about 6 rds COM until it fell...I hit the rod, never hit the plate. It never occured to me to try a headshot since I've become so conditioned to 2 rds COM on most tgts and move on...as quickly as possible.

    Gave me a lot to think about on my 2 hour drive home that night. The conditioning of IPSC shooting may be a tactical problem in real life, since you generally perform as you train.
    If you ain't the lead dog, the view never changes.

  7. #22
    Member Array TwoRavens's Avatar
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    After going to two IPSC matches I realized that it was giving me way to many bad habbits. I switched to IDPA (which is not perfect either ) when I lived CA...
    /***********
    Phill
    ************/

    "Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate"
    William of Ockham (ca. 1285-1349)

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