Slingshot or Slide Release?

This is a discussion on Slingshot or Slide Release? within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; OK, I am not ashamed to ask: What is the difference between "sling shot" and "over the top?" Thanks. Ron...

View Poll Results: Do you Slingshot or Slide Release?

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  • Slingshot

    109 69.43%
  • Slide Release

    48 30.57%
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Thread: Slingshot or Slide Release?

  1. #46
    Ron
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    OK, I am not ashamed to ask: What is the difference between "sling shot" and "over the top?" Thanks.

    Ron
    "It does not do to leave a dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him."

    J. R. R. Tolkien

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  3. #47
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    Good for you Ron!

    In the over the top, your support and is placed over the slide at the rear in a 'cupped' grip fashion with the thumb pointed to the rear. This is a very strong grip and will work even if you didn't have use of your thumb or all of your fingers. You position the gun in close to your body in a safe position and rack the slide.

    In the sling shot, you have a lot of positions the arms can be in and you can use from in close and tight to up and out, indexed toward a threat area. A common way is to rotate the gun 90° in a gangsta cant, but you don't have to. You grip the slide with your support hand thumb pointed forward and on the right side of the slide and the index finger on on the other side. At this point, in the Israeli method, you press the gun forward as you hold the slide. This advances the gun toward the threat for an immediate shot - theoretically.

    I don't especially care for that, because it will cause muzzle whip. I.e. the forward motion especially with the one-hand grip will make the muzzle move up and down as the gun pops outward and to a stop.

    So I use the other slingshot method that's just the opposite, I hold the gun firmly and pull the slide rearward. This produces less gun motion and you can extend the gun in a controlled fashion with both hands.

    But you can also use the slingshot in very tight quarters and very discretely because the gun can be positioned very low. If you position the gun low for an over the top rack, it places the wrist in a somewhat awkward position and you loose power.

    Plus, in a low, discrete position with the overhand your hand blocks your view of the ejection port. The sling shot gives you a full view of the ejection port.

    Either can be used to do a 'touch' press check. I.e. you can use a finger to feel if there's a round in the chamber. Very good for darkened situations.
    I'm too young to be this old!
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  4. #48
    pax
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    There are pictures of both types, as well as some incorrect ways of doing both, on my website at www.corneredcat.com/RunGun/rack.aspx

    pax
    Kathy Jackson
    My website: Cornered Cat

  5. #49
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    Nice pics! My only concern is that if one grips the slide with the ring finger and small finger, you loose a lot of power. I couldn't tell if you had your middle finger on the slide or not - looks like you did. That middle finger would would strengthen the grip.
    I'm too young to be this old!
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  6. #50
    Ron
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    Thanks, Tangle and Pax. That helped a lot.

    Ron
    "It does not do to leave a dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him."

    J. R. R. Tolkien

  7. #51
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    IMHO this is again another " tempest in a teapot " issue , especially when we get into the " best " way to slingshot a slide . Are we actually so helpless that we must have a single manual of arms for every occasion ?? . Hell i am a big believer in the old saw that " You fight like you train , and pain is just weakness leaving your body " . However my training also included adapt , analise , and overcome . No one technique of gun handeling will overcome all the ill fortune the world may throw at the poor sob that is running the gun . If you are unlucky enough to be in a dust up you will be scared , no i mean really scared .. the wet your pants type of scared . If your pistol stops ( trust me ) you wont worry about how you got it running again, only that you did . As stated i now attempt to use the slide stop at all times , but i honestly dont worry about how i get the gun going . This like stance is open to what works for anyone rather than like grip where you can say that this is what you need to do no matter what, be it one handed or two .
    Last edited by Scott; December 24th, 2007 at 08:35 PM. Reason: profanity
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  8. #52
    Senior Member Array Shizzlemah's Avatar
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    Just my 2c -
    I use an "overhand" slingshot. Palm down along the top of the slide.

  9. #53
    VIP Member Array KenpoTex's Avatar
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    I didn't vote since there wasn't an option for the overhand/over the top method.
    "Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina

    If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.

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  10. #54
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    RR,

    I do agree with you to some degree, but a lot of what you said would support the notion that non-specific training or even no training is better than specific training.

    If we accept that training is an asset, and I believe it is, then in order to train, there has to be something to train. That is, we need to learn and train to rack the slide. If we fight like we train, then the disipline we learn in training should be the method that we use in a fight, not by mental choice, but by instincts ingrained by doing the same task the same way in training repeatedly until it's instinctive.

    There are only two reasons to train, to gain knowledge and to gain skill. We gain skill by consistent training. I've been trained so much in the Weaver stance that after a week of training in an 'I' at Blackwater, when the stress level was turned up, I reverted to training and subconciously and instinctively went to the Weaver under stress.

    My point is not that the Weaver is better, in fact, I'm trying to transistion to the 'I' stance and it is a real struggle to overcome what is instinctive for me. What I'm trying to say is that if I need to clear a malfunction in a gunfight, heaven forbid, and I have the time, and I have the opportunity, I need an instinctive grade method of doing that.

    Many ways may be available, but studies have shown that the more ways one has to do something the longer it takes for them to respond. That is logically sound as well. If I only know one way to do something, then that's how I'll do it. If I have five ways to do something or no particular way of doing it, i.e. nothing instinctive, then I'm gonna take longer to get the task done due to the mental selection process.

    And that's ok in a lot of areas, but in a gunfight, hesitation can be disastrous.
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  11. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    ...Many ways may be available, but studies have shown that the more ways one has to do something the longer it takes for them to respond. That is logically sound as well. If I only know one way to do something, then that's how I'll do it. If I have five ways to do something or no particular way of doing it, i.e. nothing instinctive, then I'm gonna take longer to get the task done due to the mental selection process. ...
    Yes, yes and yes!! That extra time to decide adds delay in your OODA loop.

  12. #56
    Member Array Rob Pincus's Avatar
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    Indeed.

    Part of The Warrior Expert Theory is the reduction of options through consistency... again, stressing my preference for the overhand method, with we can also use for malfunctions and which can be done with the gun in the high compressed ready.

    Even better than having fewer choices to decide from is the ability to recognize what you need to do because of prior experience (including realistic training).

    -RJP

  13. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAFLA View Post
    Ok, here is one for the gunsmiths out there. I used to use the slide hold to release the slide on a round until my local gunsmith told me that this imparts an unnecessary wear on the indent where the slide hold engages. This, he said, is true of even the best made semis and will eventually wear down the opening until it is difficult to keep the slide hold engaged - thus when you slam home a magazine, the slide may release on it's own. I now use the overhand method on all my pistols including two Kahrs 9s with no problems (of course the Kahrs have over 1000 rounds each through them).
    interesting...I have an old Colt MarkIV Series 70 that I've always used the slide stop on. I've had no wear issues so far and it's got to be going on...hrm lets see...up until recently I was averaging around 12000 rounds per year on that one. I've had that one for 7 years. So for averaging 12k rounds per year for the first 6 years(discounting this year -ammo prices are biting me in the hind-end) that puts it around what...72,000 rounds I've put through it using slide release only after lockback sans failure...They sure don't make 'em like they used to.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

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  14. #58
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    I can't see useing the slide stop and causing wear as ligit, I just like shoving in a mag and keeping the hand moving over the top. Works for me but I've used all methods, and I still do just in case.
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  15. #59
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    Yes, Slingshot, always with two hands or one hand , either side of the body, cant inward and down (gravity).

    Slide "lock" not Slide "release".

    Overhand, several issues: Ejection Port Blockage, non-use of gravity, etc

  16. #60
    Ex Member Array Joe R's Avatar
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    Overhand. Pull back and release.

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