Defensive Concealed Handgun

Defensive Concealed Handgun

This is a discussion on Defensive Concealed Handgun within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I've been getting lots of requests from students that we teach the CHL course here in Arkansas for an "advanced" version thats a step up ...

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Thread: Defensive Concealed Handgun

  1. #1
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    Defensive Concealed Handgun

    I've been getting lots of requests from students that we teach the CHL course here in Arkansas for an "advanced" version thats a step up from the course that everyone that gets a permit has.

    By advanced, I don't mean shooting a thousand rounds in a course, I mean the next logical step for people that just want to be more secure in their ability to protect themselves.

    This needs to be a class geared toward the average person, the one that has accepted the responsibility for their own protection and their loved ones, with the ability to practice with what they carry.

    We are looking at several things and are in the planning stage.

    Some class time that deals with:
    An advanced segment that deals with the law, and the use of deadly force,above and beyond what they were taught in the CHL course.

    Some basic understanding of ballistics.

    Drawing from concealment, and the ability to do a rapid reload or clear a malfunction.

    Shooting ability, hitting a target center mass out to say, 10 yards.

    Shooting multiple targets, dispersed with "good guys"
    and "bad guys"

    Shooting from cover,clearing a doorway or a room, and perhaps learning to move while shooting.

    and lots of hands on practice.

    This is by no means a "hardcore" shooter class, just a logical step up for people that feel the need for more training. Most of these people aren't "gun" people, just average everyday people from all walks of life that recognize the need to improve their skills.

    As far as I know, there is nothing in this state that is even close, and we do perceive a real need for the training. I'd like to limit class size to around 10 and have an Instructor for each 2 people.

    So, my question is this...

    If you had just got your Concealed Weapons Permit, what is it that you would like to know more of ?How could you be made to feel more comfortable with your ability to defend yourself.?

    Let me hear your comments. I'm all ears.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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    VIP Member Array Supertac45's Avatar
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    From what I've seen, more time on legal issues would be a great starting point.
    I've been carrying for years, but I have tons of friends that are always asking questions concerning laws.
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    Yeah thats what I've heard too. I think that when one has to shoot, they should have NO doubt about it being the right thing to do.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
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    I took a course like you are stating after I took my ccw class. I loved it! The best part for me was learning to shoot on the move. Going from a two hand run and ending with a one hand run. As for legal issues. I would like to know more also but the way they write them up its hard for any lay person to understand them.

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    Thumbs up

    Sounds like a great idea to me as long as you don't allow fairly newbie shooters to move faster than their skill level.

    People start to do dumb things when they get even very slightly confused and flustered.

    I'm certain they will be in good qualified hands with you at the helm though HotGuns.
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    Thanks QK,

    Sounds like a great idea to me as long as you don't allow fairly newbie shooters to move faster than their skill level.
    One of the reasons for a 2-1 Instructor ratio, so that close tabs can be kept on everyone. The main goal is improvement of skills. I would like for everyone that got in to be better than they were when they entered and hopefully realize that shooting handguns is a perishable skill that needs to be maintained.

    Theres just something about someone thats never shot a handgun much or never practiced and that gets a license to tote and thinks that they are prepared for anything that just sticks in my craw. I would at least like to see them go from unconsciously incompetent to consciously competent. Could it be done in a day? Maybe it can, maybe it cant...but if not at least its a start...
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
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    Ex Member Array Joe R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Hennessy View Post
    I took a course like you are stating after I took my ccw class. I loved it! The best part for me was learning to shoot on the move. Going from a two hand run and ending with a one hand run. As for legal issues. I would like to know more also but the way they write them up its hard for any lay person to understand them.
    I did same and the shooting while moving lessons were by far the most valuable. I can read the Ohio Revised Code and understand it as it relates to CCW. If I have a question of interpretation, I will ask a lawyer. But shooting on the move must be a fundamental skill of anyone who is serious about defending himself with a firearm. Fights are not static. And moving off the X is a guaranteed way to dramatically decrease the chances of eating a bullet from an assailant.

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    sounds like you've got a good list of fundamentals. The only thing I would really add is to stress the mindset issue. Make sure they understand the "Cooper Color Codes"/states of awareness and maybe go through Principles of Personal Defense (or give them a copy as part of the course syllabus)
    "Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina

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    a suggestion for the "more legal" aspect (something I am delving more into now, since I am carrying much more often)- pick local places and situations to help remember. For instance, I vaguely remembered from my CWP class almost 2 years ago that you can't carry in places with alcohol, banks, PO, etc. However, now that I'm exercising the right, I've had to think through- can I carry to Ruby Tuesday with my friends? Legally, the answer is no. Oops... I had broken the law without meaning to, because I don't associate Ruby Tuesday with drinking alcohol. Lesson learned. and though I think I remember learning that banks are off limits, I cannot find it in the code of law now that I'm trying to varify that.

    I would love to take a class like you are suggesting!! I am all for situational learning- I'd love to simulate force on force, practice drawing from concealment, rapid fire, how to reload, clear a jam, maybe how to use a light while shooting. Discuss what things constitute protective cover vs. just visual concealment. Deal with an attacker with a drawn gun. non-firearm techniques that might be used prior to drawing your gun (for example, when someone is openly approaching you in a friendly but suspicious manor- like the large stranger wanting to ask questions or chat with me, a female walking alone out to my car). These things I think are more practical than clearing rooms, etc, for defensive purposes.

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    These things I think are more practical than clearing rooms, etc, for defensive purposes.
    Since we've had several request to learn how to clear a home, I think that the basics would be a good thing to know when you're asleep at 2AM and hear a bump in the night.
    Thats is not the time to be wondering how to do it.

    Could you call the cops and stay put in your bedroom? Sure you could.
    Got little ones down the hall?
    Most people that have the inclination to tote would also be checking on their welfare of their loved ones and would more than likely prefer not to wait till the police got there.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
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    In addition to the CCW class at my local range I signed up for the 5 handgun classes they also offer. Each is a few hours long and covers a "progression" of skills.

    Handgun 1: Mastering Marksmanship Fundamentals. Included Malfunction drills. (took this before the CCW class).
    Handgun 2: Barricade & Relative Position Shooting. Shooting from barricades. Shooting from a seated position foward/left/right. Shooting from a kneeling position. Combinations of the above. and finally, shooting while on your back (like you were pushed or fell).
    Handgun 3: Shooting on the move. It included shooting as you moved foward, back and all directions diagonally. This included moving targets and barricade to barricade movement.
    Handgun 4: Low light. We shot in low light conditions without flashlights, and then in the dark with our flashlights. They talked about various things like moving after shooting (to prevent accurate incomming fire) and how not to light ourselves with reflected light when barricade shooting.
    Handgun 5 is called "Spontaneous Assault". I have yet to take it but it includes point shooting and handling close, violent encounters.

    Of course, all my coworkers think I'm a little strange for taking all these classes. But I also take the occasional motorcycle rider course to keep the riding skills in good shape. I have learned quite a bit. For instance, how hard it is to reload in the dark!

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    One of the classes I took was situational...
    Among the many review of safety items, we were given experience in drawing and shooting from retention (target 3-5 feet away), shooting while moving, shooting from cover, shooting at multiple targets, shooting multiple 'moving targets', shooting at multiple moving targets while moving yourself, shooting in low light situations (this included proper flashlight techniques)...
    Close up shooting, at night, multiple targets, shooting from retention...almost sounds like a WalMart parking lot potential.

    Stay armed...stay safe!
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Got little ones down the hall?
    Most people that have the inclination to tote would also be checking on their welfare of their loved ones and would more than likely prefer not to wait till the police got there.

    Ahhh, now I see why that would be important in a basic class. Obviously, I have no little ones down the hall, it didn't even cross my mind! My focus has been on setting up and thinking through situations with my bedroom/bath being a fortified defensive hole-up spot. Good point!

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    One of the 1st things I noticed in my CCW class was no discussion of how to make the descision for shoot, no shoot. Scenarios are fine, but there should be a tactical list of what could create white, yellow, orange,red conditions and, when you reach red, conditions to draw, conditions to put your finger on the trigger, conditions to shoot.
    Also the moral requirements of those of us who carry.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by golfer View Post
    One of the 1st things I noticed in my CCW class was no discussion of how to make the descision for shoot, no shoot. Scenarios are fine, but there should be a tactical list of what could create white, yellow, orange,red conditions and, when you reach red, conditions to draw, conditions to put your finger on the trigger, conditions to shoot.
    Also the moral requirements of those of us who carry.
    Golfer, the sheer volume of the info you're taling about here, would take 3 days of non-stop lecture, 2 lawyers, and have a substantial cost.

    Most states required CCW Training is a bare minimum in order to keep cost down and make it affordable for everyone to take it.

    Most of the info IE "morality" isn't going to be taught, legality is somehting else all togeather. As for circumstances that can or will elevate threat conditions, that's going to vary from person to person, and the list of things that could do so would probably take up all of our server space.

    If you want a lot of answers regarding legaity, I'd look into THIS COURSE.

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