Low quality handguns, with risk of AD when one is in the pipe.
This is a discussion on Why Israeli Draw? within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I bumped into this Krav Maga video on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0i7N6Y7OYwI (fast forward to 3:00 if you want to see the firearms training) I was wondering ...
I bumped into this Krav Maga video on youtube:
(fast forward to 3:00 if you want to see the firearms training)
I was wondering if any one knows why they do this? It doesn't seem like it serves any purpose except slow down the draw.
Low quality handguns, with risk of AD when one is in the pipe.
The "Israeli Method" is a point shooting system devised by the Israel Defense Force (IDF) for use in training personnel to use rifles, submachineguns, and handguns.
In its initial stages of training, it closely resembles the Fairbairn, Sykes, and Applegate (FSA) method described above. In later stages, training in the rapid acquisition of the sights is taught, as well as a more advanced method of pointshooting.
In the United States and Canada, the term "Israeli Method" is generally believed to refer to the carrying of a semiautomatic pistol with its chamber empty. However, the carrying of the chamber empty served a safety consideration, rather than a tactical consideration. In past decades, due to severe budget constraints, IDF purchased and issued large quantities of antiquated sidearms, the mechanical safety of which was questionable. In recent decades, as budget concerns are increasingly alleviated and more modern, standardized sidearms are issued, this mode of carry is increasingly being phased out. It should also be noted that specialized personnel, such as police and special forces units, have typically carried newer and safer firearms, and have rarely used this mode of carry.
"Naked and Starving as They are We Cannot Enough Admire the Incomparable Patience and Fidelity of the Soldiery" – George Washington, Valley Forge, 1777.
The israeli method of 'draw/rack/shoot' is just as fast as drawing a weapon with a rd in the chamber when drawing from the strong side...
For people here and now, it drastically reduces the chance of an ND by cutting way down on your administrative handling.
It's just an option; for some, it works.
When people get involved in guns for a while, they tend to narrow their focus and see everything through the exclusive lens of gunfighting. But that's confusing means with ends. The purpose of carrying a gun is not to win gunfights. That's a means to an end. The purpose of carrying a gun is to make you safer; the means is maybe a gunfight.
But for every gunfight you're probably not going to be in, you'll do thousands of administrative handlings (load, unload, reholster, put in the safe, etc etc etc). Every one of them is a chance of an ND. So the proper risk assessment is not to look only at gunfights, but at the entirety of your risks.
Carrying chamber empty is simply reassigning risk: you're adding a small risk to some small subset of gunfights, but you're subtracting a real risk of NDs. It's a trade-off, like everything else. It's not for everyone, but then there is no one rule true for everyone either.
Proverbs 27:12 says: “The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it.”
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But even for a person relatively untrained in the Israeli Draw: with any practice at all, racking a handgun during the draw should take less than 1/2 a second, probably much less. But where you carry your gun, your holster choices, your clothes that day -- all these are elements that add a similar amount of time. Racking is conceptually no different that other carry choices that add a fleeting amount of time. Yet, for some reason, c/e carry is only thing people get wrapped around the axle over. Why is that?
The entire DGU even will take seconds: you have to spot the risk, you have to break out of denial, you have to draw, you have to aim, you have to fire, and it'll then take some amount of time for the first round to take effect on the BG.
From first instant of recognition to BG incapacitation is many seconds, let's say 5 seconds. The rack is at most 0.5 of a second; maybe 10% of the total time. For you to say that the rack was the dealbreaker is to say that you had 5 seconds and you won, but if you had to take 5.5 seconds, then you lose. I doubt anyone here can make such a claim that DGUs are that tightly scheduled.
Oh, and before I forget, carrying with an empty chamber adds one more failure mode to getting the gun into action.
You're welcome to carrying an empty gun and whistle past the graveyard that it doesn't matter.
Remember folks that the "Israeli method " came about to meet a specific circumstance and demand and it did it well . In visiting with some folks who " were there " my take on the method is that it was formulated because when Israel was formed after WWII the fledgling state was faced with a variety of " cast off " weapons to include pistols from various sources with various designs . They were also faced with quickly providing training to virtually every adult in the country. Rather than teach each person a manual of arms for the pistol he had they came up with a " universal " manual of arms that will work with virtually any semi auto and taught it . It had an additional benefit in that unskilled and semiskilled folk were not handling a firearm that could be fired without a conscious and deliberate act of gross motor skills . It made sense at the time , and if i had to quickly train up a mass amount of folks under the same circumstances it would make sense today . However in todays real world it is little more than an interesting historical footnote as there are not only better and more effective techniques , but also the time to implement them .
As an interesting aside ... Some of the instructors taught the students to cant the pistol towards the centerline of the body to rack the slide for a firmer grip . This may well have gone to Hollywood thro Israeli trained film consultants and then been morphed into the " gangbang " side shooting bs we see so much of today .. and then to the street. I have no facts to back that up , but have heard it discussed in some circles and it makes as much sense as any other explanation of the hold the pistol sideways bs that i have heard .
Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .
Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.
And of course there are circumstances where chamber-loaded is not healthy. If, for example, you had some routine where you have to unholster and reholster in your car every day. Reholstering inside a car is a terribly dangerous thing to do, no matter how careful you are.This also fails the reality test. People make the mistake of viewing conventional wisdom as the universal rule of the world.You're welcome to carrying an empty gun and whistle past the graveyard that it doesn't matter.
The reality is:
- for the first half of the 20th century, carrying semi-autos c/e was the norm, not the exception, and
- many people, such as the Israelis and other places on the globe, carried c/e and managed rather well. Those were areas where you got into gunfights MUCH more frequently than we do here and now in the US.
- and most of the time it won't matter.
Although I dont really like the Israeli method, it would be foolish to think they dont know what they are doing. They tend to put out some great gun fighters, and they have come up with a lot of the techniques we use everyday.
"Just blame Sixto"
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