Firearms & Urban Survival Training from a Civilian Standpoint.

This is a discussion on Firearms & Urban Survival Training from a Civilian Standpoint. within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I am going to be a bit all-encompassing and a bit general here so bear with me. We talk and discuss a lot about SHTF ...

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Thread: Firearms & Urban Survival Training from a Civilian Standpoint.

  1. #1
    VIP Member
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    Firearms & Urban Survival Training from a Civilian Standpoint.

    I am going to be a bit all-encompassing and a bit general here so bear with me.

    We talk and discuss a lot about SHTF scenarios and what should we do during a home invasion but I don't see a lot in the way of training out there. There are great schools and instructors but I feel what they teach is just their application of what they learned as LEOs and/or Military and give it to Average Joe.
    Here is my example: If we are confronted with a home invasion, specially after we gone to bed, the discipline is to get the gun, gather everybody in one room if possible, lock the door and call 911. Or if we get home and see that it was broken into, we are supposed to stay outside & call the cops. However I see schools training on how to do room clearings almost exclusively.

    In a SHTF scenario like a hurricane aftermath, I am going to be in my house as much as possible to keep an eye on my property and keep my family safe, but I have not seen (does not mean it does not exist) a class that covers how to defend yourself in a fixed position against incoming intruders.

    And let's face it, the great majority of us ain't Rambo or Mitch Rapp or Scot Harvath. We are urban, non-athletic types that wont be fastroping from a blackhawk anytime soon or have tons of cool gadgets/Molle/armor/etc.

    So for the trainers out there, if there is not a program that focuses on your Average Joe with a regular handgun, an inexpensive shotgun and AK or equally low cost rifle and how to defend one selves from your band of roaming looters or your typical criminal, you guys are missing on a great commercial opportunity IMHO.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

    Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
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  3. #2
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    I could do a generic one pretty easy, but it would almost have to be custom to your home and situation for you to get the max for your money.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    Member Array Troy Price's Avatar
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    Miggy,

    What you are asking for is a class that really can't be taught objectively, although we do try.

    Can someone teach you to clear rooms as an individual? Yes, but what no one wants to tell you is that the odds are against you. According to military doctrine a defending force (force in place) has a 3-1 or 10-1 odds in their favor, depending on fortifications. If you are going to clear your home, by yourself, you would need to stack the odds in your favor. Remember though, some times you are forced to take action no matter the odds; speed, decisiveness, and superior marksmanship will help turn the odds in your favor.

    As for defending your home during a home invasion, there are no special skills required other than knowing how to take the initiative away from the bad guys and force them to react to you instead of you reacting to them.

    Usually a home invasion is going to come as a surprise to the person answering the door, as long as you are ready for it every time you answer the door you should be successful should it ever happen to you. Keys to taking the initiative away from the bad guy:

    1) Know who is knocking on your door before it is opened.
    2) Have a gun on your person - the gun in the bedroom does you no good when you are answering the door.
    3) Gain the advantage by acting decisively and violently - most bad guys expect meek compliance. By you yelling at them while presenting a weapon you take the "attacker's initiative" away from them and now they must react to you. Know your local laws and whether "Castle Doctrine" applies to where you live.

    One of the most important principles in defending your home after a SHTF incident is what we call "hard targeting". If you look like someone the BGs don't want to mess with then they will go somewhere else. Neighborhood Watches can help with this. No matter what, you will need to construct some sort of defensive positions that don't appear to be what they are. Also, have someone other than just yourself providing security - you have to sleep sometime.
    Again know your local laws. Where I live we can't carry concealed during a declared disaster, but we can sure open carry.
    Learn about the Principles of the Defense, they apply if your leading a platoon in combat or preparing your home in a SHTF incident.

    Shameless Plug#1

    LMS Defense Home Defense

    If ever there is a fight where you MUST be the Last Man Standing, it is a fight within your own home. Your family depends on you prevailing. This 2 day Home Defense course will teach you the skills necessary to build a strong, multi-layered defense plan for your home. You will learn how to develop concentric rings of security, home hardening, safe room set-up, lanes of fire, family member rescues, CQB weapons manipulation, room clearing, low light encounters, police interaction and stress management. If you use a weapon to defend your home, this course should be on your short-list.

    Shameless Plug #2

    LMS Defense Family Protection Fundamentals


    The majority of defensive training revolves around the assumption that the individual is alone or in a team of similarly trained individuals. Most of the time, the average person does not operate like this; instead spending most of their time with their family. If presented with a threat, the individual’s primary concern must be the protection of their family.

    The LMS Defense Family Protection Fundamentals course will teach the individual, couple or family how to implement an aggressive security posture that is both nonintrusive to the family and transparent to the general public; while remaining potently effective against organized attacks and crimes of opportunity. This course will teach you how to organize into a ‘family protection unit’, with each member having a specific role in the security plan; family unit movement; situational awareness; recognizing potential threats; how to identify avenues of approach and danger areas; exit strategies; conflict resolution and threat mitigation techniques; precision firearms use and post-fight plans.
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    Distinguished Member Array SixBravo's Avatar
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    Good post. I'd be very interested in taking something like this as well. The best thing I can think of would probably be doing some Airsoft training with a friend or two. Have them make an approach at your house from an unknown direction and see what happens. Really this kind of stuff needs to be tailored to the individuals needs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SixBravo View Post
    The best thing I can think of would probably be doing some Airsoft training with a friend or two. Have them make an approach at your house from an unknown direction and see what happens.
    Make sure you don't do it near Joe Horn's house...
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  7. #6
    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    Join your local unofficial militia??? Just get the training and forget to show up the day they want to confront the FBI?
    Spend few minutes learning about my journey from Zero to Athlete in this mini documentary!
    Then check out my blog! www.BodyByMcDonalds.com

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    AMH
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    Hey cupcake that is not nice! LOL

    I used to train with these guys: www.michiganmilitia.com

    They are completely law abiding. I have also spent a few years in the military, and I can tell you without a doubt that this militia outfit provides training just as every bit as solid as what I got in the military.

    I am big fan of civilian militias. I say go for it.
    Join the NRA!
    The Second Amendment has nothing to do with hunting. It is about keeping the government in check. This requires that the citizenry is well armed and at all times has immediate access to arms.

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    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    I've seriously considered the Michigan Militia, and your not the first to mention good training and the law abiding part. That does not fall on deaf ears, I think they need to work on their public image, though. I'm just saying that if any organization (or individuals) I hang around starts getting all waco or talking about how "sorry the feds will be if they come on my property," or whatever, then it's time for me to bug out. You have to admit that a number of civilian militias lean that way, Michigans' seems to keep their noses clean though, AFAIK.
    Spend few minutes learning about my journey from Zero to Athlete in this mini documentary!
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    There were some fringe elements that were a bit extreme. I just didn’t hang with them. I hung with the Wayne County Folks, they are all great guys. Macomb County folks are good also.

    Its like any other organization, there is good and bad. There are racists and gang bangers in the US Army, that doesn’t mean that the US Army supports it as an organization.
    Join the NRA!
    The Second Amendment has nothing to do with hunting. It is about keeping the government in check. This requires that the citizenry is well armed and at all times has immediate access to arms.

  11. #10
    Member Array Troy Price's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SixBravo View Post
    Good post. I'd be very interested in taking something like this as well. The best thing I can think of would probably be doing some Airsoft training with a friend or two. Have them make an approach at your house from an unknown direction and see what happens. Really this kind of stuff needs to be tailored to the individuals needs.
    Here is the link to our schedule. If you have a conflict let me know and I'll see what we can work out.

    Force on Force with your friends is good, just remember there is always a "contrived" factor with staged FoF. You have to be really objective about it.
    Deputy Director of Training
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    troyprice@lmsdefense.com

    It is not the ability to master the extraordinary that makes a warrior special; what makes a warrior special is the ability to master the basics extraordinarily well. - (author unknown)

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    VIP Member Array raevan's Avatar
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    Because of all the radical anti government types that got involved with the Militia movement in the 1990's, who were building illegal automatic weapons and bombs, any group that forms a Militia type organization will attract the attention of the FBI and local police. This is especially true here in Washington State. The idea of forming a local Militia is appealing but the fringe people that move into it advocating death and destruction usually destroy it.

    I prefer to remain under the radar, If we have a SHTF occurance I might help band a few neighbors to resist invasion of our comunity. Since training is a problem I keep my ear to the ground to try and keep track of those in the area who might be trained enough to form a core group to build from.

    I have found that in my area, that a lot of the people I may need to defend against, happen to live close by. Gang members who have moved to the suburbs, drug dealers, drug users and a numerous other minor criminals that wouldn't be adverse to taking things from others. It really boils down to a few close friends and immediate family are all one can count on.

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    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    Maybe that's what I need, to start a local SHTF group that maybe trains together, sharing skills like first aid, weapons skills, the stuff Miggy was talking about, etc. Could possibly group together a for mutual support when something does go down. Dunno, I guess I'm babbling now...let's just say that there is a whole lot more training that I'd like than I can afford.
    Spend few minutes learning about my journey from Zero to Athlete in this mini documentary!
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    [Journalist is handed a rifle]
    Journalist: I'm a non-combatant.
    Sergeant Major: Ain't no such thing today.
    The Siege of Firebase Gloria?


    The classes Troy mentions go to gist of what I was talking about. I was listening to the Guntalk Podcast and Mas Ayoob said something interesting and very true: You must survive an attack long enough for the police to arrive. That would be your "normal life" scenario and of course it would differ from a SHTF scenario in the tropics (hurricane) and from a SHTF up north like they are suffering right now with the Winter Storms in which LEOs would take along time to arrive or not at all (distance, no communications, etc)

    Another scenario like Mall or very crowded area shooting: What would the behavior of the masses be? You can get hurt or die on the stampede for the exit as well as a bullet. Have you planned on that? Do you know a store you could take cover (alone or with Family) which would give you some protection instead of risking being stomped to death or (God Forbid) the shooter is smart and goes for the people trying to funnel themselves through the exits.

    I guess I am asking as much mental training, planning and preparation as firearms' for those of us NOT operators.

    That being said. Troy, when are you guys going to open alocation in Florida, prefereably in SOUTH florida
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

    Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
    Signed: Me!

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    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miggy View Post
    The Siege of Firebase Gloria?
    We were Soldiers

    The classes Troy mentions go to gist of what I was talking about. I was listening to the Guntalk Podcast and Mas Ayoob said something interesting and very true: You must survive an attack long enough for the police to arrive. That would be your "normal life" scenario and of course it would differ from a SHTF scenario in the tropics (hurricane) and from a SHTF up north like they are suffering right now with the Winter Storms in which LEOs would take along time to arrive or not at all (distance, no communications, etc)

    Another scenario like Mall or very crowded area shooting: What would the behavior of the masses be? You can get hurt or die on the stampede for the exit as well as a bullet. Have you planned on that? Do you know a store you could take cover (alone or with Family) which would give you some protection instead of risking being stomped to death or (God Forbid) the shooter is smart and goes for the people trying to funnel themselves through the exits.

    I guess I am asking as much mental training, planning and preparation as firearms' for those of us NOT operators.

    That being said. Troy, when are you guys going to open alocation in Florida, prefereably in SOUTH florida
    I'm right there with you migster. I'd like some of them classes too, but I can't imagine my wife believing that if I went Nevada with a bunch of cash that I'm getting "training." Aren't there any good schools in MI?
    Spend few minutes learning about my journey from Zero to Athlete in this mini documentary!
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    Keep in mind that its equally important to be ready to bug out too, and what you need to do or at least think about might be totally different than what I do. If you have small kids, elderly, medical conditions your vehicle the list can go on and on. These things can only be address on a case by case basis.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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