Brian, earlier you said:
I have been to a substantial amount of firearms training, much of it tailored to a military or law enforcement audience. All of it stressed me acting unilaterally to eliminate the threat. I have yet to see a technique whose successful employment was predicated on the fact I was wearing body armor. The presumption I had a long gun available was only made in those courses where a long gun was the focus of the course. The use of cover and concealment was frequently discussed and its use was generally encouraged if the circumstances allowed.
Originally Posted by Brian@ITC
With a few thousand hours of force on force training (in military, law enforcement and civilian formats) and having had the opprtunity to put much of the training I have received to use in the real world, I have yet to see a viable method of successfully employing a firearm for the military or law enforcment that would result in a civilian being seriously injured or killed. Those techniques that fell apart were bad techniques and were not applicable to anyone.
To address your points:
As I already stated, all of the firearms training I have received focused on me eliminating the threat unilaterally. Does the military train collectively? Sure, once individuals demonstrate proficiency at the individual level.
First of all, soldiers walk around with a long gun and normally in numbers with others who are trained. How many soldiers are walking around Iraq by themselves? More than likely their weapon is in their hands and ready to respond and again, in numbers. Two soldiers responding to a situation is better than one!
With regard to long guns. Certainly, a disproportionate amount of military firearms training focuses on employing the long gun vs. the handgun. Long guns are the primary weapon system of the military. Having a long gun in both hands is preferrable if one anticipates having to use it. I suspect the civilian who retrieves a long gun to investigate a "bump in the night" will be carrying it in both hands just as the police officer does when he retrieves his shotgun from the patrol car.
I have never participated in nor conducted a training exercise where individuals were allowed "prepare" to draw their weapon by placing their hand on their holstered weapon. I have never heard of it, though I suspect someone, somewhere is doing it. But that would be the exception rather than the rule.
Much of the time LEO’s approach situations with their hands on their gun which gives them an advantage and they don’t have to clear and draw. This alone can cut possibly ½ second off the draw time.
Is placing your hand on your weapon in anticipation of a potential conflict practiced in the real world? Sure, it is a valid technique. But it is not one limited to law enforcement. A number of civilians who carry in their pocket like to do so, at east in part, because it innocuously allows them to place their hand on their weapon.
Both the Weaver and Isosceles are valid methods for engaging a threat when time and circumstances allow you to get two hands on your weapon. I am not sure if you are sugesting that their validity is tied to body armor but both stances pre-date the wide spread adoption of body armor by law enforcement and the Military.
And again, much of the time soldiers and LEO’s are wearing body armor. So, using the Weaver or Isosceles stance to utilize the body armor is a wise idea.
I am not sure that it is completely wrong for a firearms training course to focus on employing the firearm. But the vast majority of the training programs I have attended always addressed at least some method of incorporating unarmed techniques. Those that did not specifically focused on improving individual speed and accuracy with a firearm and represented themselves as such.
Most of the tactics used by military and LE are not based upon unarmed combatives but rather the gun is the solution.
I would add that I do a lot more unarmed combatives training in the military than I do firearms training.
I am not sure what additional resources you are referring to. Perhaps you will be good enough to enlighten me as to the different resources I would successfully employ as a Soldier were I forced to engage a threat with my holstered handgun at a distance of five feet and contrast that with an LEO and a civilian under the same conditions. I contend the skill sets required and their application does not differ.
I do not agree with the fact that civilian, LE, or military interpersonal combatives are the same. Again, because of the resources available to LE and military in many situations that is not available in civilian conflicts.