Eye Opener Tonight

This is a discussion on Eye Opener Tonight within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I haven't had the opportunity to take a good handgun training course yet, but I definitely need to. Tonight my gun club had a combat ...

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Thread: Eye Opener Tonight

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Roadrunner's Avatar
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    Eye Opener Tonight

    I haven't had the opportunity to take a good handgun training course yet, but I definitely need to. Tonight my gun club had a combat shoot. We don't have a big range, so it's a fairly simple deal compared to something like IPSC. It changes month to month, but this is the first I've ever shot it. This week the setup was as follows:

    - First stage, two BG's with a hostage between, lights out with a blinking strobe on the target, three rounds in each target.

    - Second stage, five rounds in one BG, lights out, flashlight in hand.

    - Third stage, two BG's with a hostage between, lights dim, four rounds in one target from barricade, reload, move to next barricade three feet over, three rounds in second BG.

    As I said, I've never shot this or anything like it before, but I do shoot a lot on my own time and practice getting on target quickly, little things like that. I felt fairly proficient; until tonight. I ran through the course twice, once with my old Model 10 that I haven't shot in 18 months, then again with my daily carry Colt Commander. I hit the hostage on both stages with the M10, but other than that most of my hits were in the A and B zones. I'm OK with that, this isn't my primary weapon, I just shot with it for fun. With the Commander, I didn't hit the hostages but my accuracy was way off on the second stage. I yanked them all low and left shooting one-handed. The worst part was that when I pulled up on target one handed I forgot to take off the thumb safety. Yep, that one stupid little motion that I was sure I had trained my thumb to do no matter what got completely missed in the minor stress of a club combat shoot. This is not good. I also need night sights. With the flashing strobe on the first stage I was shooting blind, and the second stage wasn't much better. At least my reload on the third stage went smoothly with both weapons. That's surprising with the revolver, I haven't practiced with speedloaders much.

    This was a humbling experience; to anyone else who's carrying without having done some type of combat scenario training, I highly encourage you to go do something, even if it's just a club combat shoot. Hopefully you'll do better than me, but if nothing else you'll get a slightly better feel for what you need to work on. For me that's everything. I'm already signed up for a combat training course this summer, now I know just how badly I need it.
    - Kurt
    “Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it.” ~Pericles of Athens
    Primary Carry - Colt Commander .45 in a Brommeland Max-Con V

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Array SilenceDoGood's Avatar
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    Good for you for being proactive, a very wise choice! Let us know how the corse goes, and who did you sign up with if you don't mine me asking?
    "A government is like fire, a handy servant, but a dangerous master." -- George Washington

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    Distinguished Member Array XD 45's Avatar
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    good luck with the course
    XD .45, Glock 23, Mossberg 590A, M&P 15 Rossi 641, RIA 1911


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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    I forgot to take off the thumb safety.
    Same thing happened to me, but it wasn't at a range. That's why I'm a big advocate of "Point and Shoot" weapons like the Glock and Revolvers.

    Biker

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Kudos on the event! They can be a lot of fun, and you can meet some great folks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadrunner View Post
    I hit the hostage on both stages ... accuracy was way off ... yanked them all low and left shooting one-handed ... forgot to take off the thumb safety.
    It's funny what breaks under the pressure of a stressed situation. What's good is that you now know those skills are fragile. You can hone them through practice, and you can toughen them through the "fire" of increased/varied training. The more "real", the better, such as force-on-force and "shoot house" courses of fire.

    Hopefully you'll do better than me, but if nothing else you'll get a slightly better feel for what you need to work on.
    The beauty is, the more you do training and simulated/realistic situations, the greater the improvements and knowledge of what you still need to work on. It's all good, in that sense.

    I'm OK with that, this isn't my primary weapon, I just shot with it for fun.
    One thing you can definitely do is: when shooting to train, never treat it as simply "fun". Treat it as if your life depended on it. Ratchet up the stress ... and learn to let it flow through you, so that you can effectively manage it. Think hard on the situation, let it flow, and manage it as if those targets were in fact prepared to take your life. Eliminate the threats as if you had your children with you and mistakes could cost a life.

    Mentally "squeezed" in this way, you can get twice as much out of a given exercise.

    I'm hardly an expert in any of these types of training but, given a disability that limits what I'm able to participate in these days, I make it a point to treat every training exercise as a golden opportunity to think through a stressed situation and work out how to best eliminate the "threat". In this way, I feel I get far more out of the exercises than simply time on the range.

    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    That's why I'm a big advocate of "Point and Shoot" weapons like the Glock and Revolvers.
    Yup. The last thing I want to ever experience during a real, life-or-death situation is the inability to defend myself. To my way of thinking, it has never made sense to purchase something with a built-in death switch, in that sense. Pass.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
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    VIP Member Array tns0038's Avatar
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    Wish our range would do something like that; sounds like fun, and very educational.

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    VIP Member Array NCHornet's Avatar
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    I say you done good. You know what you need to work on now. How many of us never attempt such a drill. I am currently looking for a gun club in my area and have come up empty handed. I have built some informal scenarios back in the woods but haven't done any drills at night in years. Don't want to feak out the neighbors!! lol.
    If anybody knows of a gun club that performs these types of shoots close to me please let me know.
    NCH
    When Seconds Count, The Cops Are Just Minutes Away!!
    Carry On!
    NCHornet

  9. #8
    Senior Member Array Roadrunner's Avatar
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    The course is with Lethal Weapons Training Academy in McKean PA, just a few miles from my house. It's run by "Crazy" Bob of Bob's Gun Shop. My Dad took his course two summers ago and really enjoyed it. Him, my brother and I planned to take it again together last summer but Dad got deployed so we postponed it a year. Now I kinda wish I'd gone anyway, I could always take it again with Dad when he got back.

    Thanks for all of the other insight guys.
    - Kurt
    “Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it.” ~Pericles of Athens
    Primary Carry - Colt Commander .45 in a Brommeland Max-Con V

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    I had a link several months ago titled "enlightening and humbling experience at the range" (or something like that). I too, under the training pressure missed taking off the safety on my 1911, I know where you're coming from. I clearly remember during the "millisecond" preceeding the BG (my son) attack on me that I only wanted to draw and fire......no safety, no racking, no nothing, just draw and pull the trigger.

    You really have to train to the level of unlocking that 1911 instinctively under stress, and not just training under "peaceful times", OR start carrying a gun that only requires a trigger pull.

    Good job and congratulations on your "training awareness", it's probably something a lot of us need on a regular basis.
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

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    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    Same thing happened to me, but it wasn't at a range. That's why I'm a big advocate of "Point and Shoot" weapons like the Glock and Revolvers.

    Biker
    +1 Striker fired is definetly a plus.
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  12. #11
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    While those type of events are very fun and educational like you found out, they still are nothing like the real thing, but they are certainly closer than shooting at paper hanging still at 7 yds.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    Distinguished Member Array USPnTX's Avatar
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    Its amazing how a course like that will show you how shooting at paper targets is fairly worthless.
    "Do not fear those who disagree with you; fear those that do and are too cowardly to admit it" - Napoleon

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    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    Same thing happened to me, but it wasn't at a range. That's why I'm a big advocate of "Point and Shoot" weapons like the Glock and Revolvers.
    ...and SIG
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

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    Senior Member Array adaman04's Avatar
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    It's a training issue for sure, but as said before my Glock is point and shoot and I train just that way. I will eventually buy a 1911 but it will take a lot of training to get me to carry it.

    There isn't a range within an hour of me that is worth a darn. A little further and you get in to some that are always packed (in the city) but do offer tactical shoots like you went to.

    Luckily for me I have discovered a semi-local trainer that offers full day courses on everything from 5 Handgun courses to Defensive Rifle and Shotgun. His rates are very reasonable for a full day class and he himself trains all over the country to keep his tactics on the edge.

    You have an eye opening experience. Go back, do it some more an learn from it!

  16. #15
    Member Array jonesy_26's Avatar
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    Good job getting some more training. With the thumb saftey on your Commander....I have trained so that when I draw, the thumb safety is disengaged in the middle of the draw stroke. Its all about muscle memory. When I pull my gun, my thumb rides the safety the whole time. Pushes down, and stays there. So by the time I am on target, (hopefully under 1.5s), the gun is ready to rock and the last thing I have to do is put my finger on the trigger.

    Practice disengaging the thub safety during some dry fire excercises. Repitition will get you doing it without thinking.

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