Combat Focus Training

This is a discussion on Combat Focus Training within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; For those who have not read or seen Rob Pincus's book/DVD "Combat Focus Shooting"--it is awesome. I trained with Rob at Valhalla before I left ...

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Thread: Combat Focus Training

  1. #1
    New Member Array HadjiKlr74's Avatar
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    Exclamation Combat Focus Training

    For those who have not read or seen Rob Pincus's book/DVD "Combat Focus Shooting"--it is awesome. I trained with Rob at Valhalla before I left on my last job in Private Security and I learned a boatload. I now incorporate his drills into my weekly routine and my monthly Rifle/Pistol Transition training.

    The key is Rob teaches us to work with what our body does naturally under stress, not try to learn strange techniques to counter it--when we do this, our movements are more fluid, and thus we get faster and put more rounds on target.

    It helped me streamline my training routine, and do more with a 50rd box of ammo than I could do with 150rds in a afternoon!

    Check it out at Valhalla's website.
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  3. #2
    Member Array Mongoose's Avatar
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    Combat Focus Shooting... is this another way of saying Point Shooting?

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    Member Array wizardofgore's Avatar
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    I agree worth reading and watching. I would not call it point shooting. It is more a mindset he teaches. His technique is for combat shooting, not bullseye shooting.

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    He's no longer connected with Valhalla.

    Brownie
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    Senior Member Array Matthew Temkin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wizardofgore View Post
    I agree worth reading and watching. I would not call it point shooting. It is more a mindset he teaches. His technique is for combat shooting, not bullseye shooting.
    If Rob is not teaching point shooting then I am whistling Dixie.
    It is amazing how so many can bash something for decades and then embrace the same exact thing when outfitted with a new name.

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    "It is amazing how so many can bash something for decades and then embrace the same exact thing when outfitted with a new name."

    so true....so true
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

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    Member Array Mongoose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wizardofgore View Post
    I agree worth reading and watching. I would not call it point shooting. It is more a mindset he teaches. His technique is for combat shooting, not bullseye shooting.
    I thought Point shooting was for COMBAT and not tragets. With tragets you can use your sights where in a gun fight...screw the sights! BANG...BANG.....BANG........and....BANG..........L OL


    New name.... that is all......It all can be traced back to the BIBLE of point shooting, The very first time it was ever in print. "Shooting to Live' by Captain William Ewart Fairbairn. A man who knew about gun fighting!

    http://www.gutterfighting.org/files/...ng_to_live.pdf



    I read an idea on another forum about practicing point shooting at home! How? Use a BB gun. LOL

    I have a back yard and the neighbors are not going to hear me shooting a BB gun! LOL
    This way you can practice your point shooting methods without EATING up $$$$$$$ in Ammo! Seems like a good idea.

  9. #8
    New Member Array HadjiKlr74's Avatar
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    Before we start bashing the man, let him defend himself.

    To quote from Rob's Book: (pg. 12-14)

    "Basically for several years, I tried to rationalize FRONT SIGHT SHOOTING AND INTUITIVE SHOOTING, with little satisfaction. I came to the conclusion that 2 hits in 1 second that are 6 inches apart on target are infinitely better than two hits in 3 seconds that are in the same hole. Stopping the threat in one third the time makes you SAFE FASTER THAN PERFECT SHOTS. UNDERSTAND WE ARE NOT TALKING TARGET SHOOTING, BUT COMBAT EFFECTIVE SHOOTING."

    "With the use of dashboard cameras in patrol cars, we now, have unlimited access to see what really happens during a critical incident--not the Hollywood version, but real life. What we see: largely guys ducking and sticking the gun in front of their faces while squeezing the trigger and looking at the threat, is what the human brain was designed to do when faced with a lethal threat. If we focus on a 3mm wide piece of metal 24 inches from our face instead of the threat, we will hesitate when our instinctive reaction and our "Trained" response conflict."

    When in Combat, the brain wants to focus on the threat--thus, "Combat Focus Shooting". That said, let's be clear, Combat Focus Shooting is not a system based on never using your sights. It is about understanding the balance of Speed & Precision and the principal of Combat Accuracy. A shot is Combat Accurate if it significantly effects the targets ability to present a lethal threat."

    THE BALANCE OF PRECISION NEEDED TO ACHIEVE THAT GOAL (DICTATED BY THE TARGET) AND THE SPEED IN WHICH A SHOOTER CAN ACHIEVE THAT LEVEL OF PRECISION (THEIR ABILITY) IS WHAT DETERMINES WHETHER THE SHOOTER WILL USE THEIR SIGHTS. THE SHOOTER THEN UNDERSTANDS HE WILL NOT HAVE TO WASTE HIS TIME LOOKING AT THE SIGHTS WHEN HE DOES NOT NEED THEM, BUT WILL USE THEM WHEN THE NEED FOR PRECISION DICTATES.

    I will say this, like Rob, I was trained with the Modern Technique my entire life, with the bulk coming from the Military. After 2 tours in Iraq & being in Combat for the better part of 8 years and working in Private Security for 4 years, I can tell you from experience, the Modern Technique is flawed and not realistic in many aspects.

    The system Rob is teaching is not "point shooting" at all--it is simply stated, working with what your body does naturally under stress, for those who have never been in Combat or in a Highly stressful incident, your primal instincts cannot be replaced with a pre-programmed system of 5 steps. That is Nonsense.
    The fewer options you give yourself, the better off you will be. As Rob stated, this does not mean never using your sights, it means using your sights when the target dictates so.

    I urge you guys to take a look at the Book/DVD--Take it from somebody who would not lie to you--I have nothing to prove to anybody--I already proved myself and have scars to show for it.
    I leave my ego at the door when it comes to training, and I urge all of you to do the same, this is not about the sighted vs. unsighted fire debacle, this is about staying alive in a gunfight, pure and simple.

    Stay Salty.
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  10. #9
    Member Array Mongoose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HadjiKlr74 View Post
    (In Part)

    Before we start bashing the man, let him defend himself.

    This is not about the sighted vs. unsighted fire debacle, this is about staying alive in a gunfight, pure and simple.

    Stay Salty.
    Yes, I agree with you 100%. Call it what ever you want, bottom line is standing after a gun fight.

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    Senior Member Array Matthew Temkin's Avatar
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    I have read the book and own both of his videos.
    I have also corresponded with Rob and was present at a lecture that he gave in NYC last April.
    In other words, I am not bashing the man, nor am I quite as ignorant on this subject as HadjiKlr74 implies.
    But as someone who has been practicing/researching point shooting for decades--including a week of hands on training with Col. Rex Applegate--- I fail to see where Combat Focus is anything new.
    In fact nothing in his book--be it tactics/techniques/mindset--is anything that has not been known/practiced for generations.
    Just because Mr. Pincus claims otherwise does not make it true.
    Again, the fact that Rob's system is being embraced by quite a few notorious anti point shooters shows the power of the old, "New and Improved" marketing hype.

  12. #11
    New Member Array HadjiKlr74's Avatar
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    Question

    I am not trying to say "It is something New"--I am simply stating it is something that works. The marketing hype you mention is used by anyone trying to make a living in the training arena, all trainers do it--you cannot fault a man for doing that--he wants to eat too.

    I am sick of people arguing about sighted vs. unsighted and what is better, etc. Armchair warriors like to argue about such things. They can try to enamour people with their book knowledge, when the closest they came to combat was the airsoft match last week.

    Come back to me after being on the business end of an AK at 10 yds and tell me what works--I guarantee you after you change your underwear and your gun is at slidelock, (because you thought you fired 3 rds and you really emptied your mag in 2 seconds) you will say that AK looked like a 105 howitzer and that is all you saw until it was over because primal instinct to survive over-rode your training to concentrate on the front sight. True Story.

    Come on fellas--let's get real about training, otherwise we are ******* in the wind.
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  13. #12
    Member Array detroit9mm's Avatar
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    I did view Rob's DVD a couple of times and use some of the stuff in there during my personal practice and training. I thought it was very practical and very well presented. I would suggest it as worthwhile to anyone.

  14. #13
    Senior Member Array Matthew Temkin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HadjiKlr74 View Post
    I am not trying to say "It is something New"--I am simply stating it is something that works. The marketing hype you mention is used by anyone trying to make a living in the training arena, all trainers do it--you cannot fault a man for doing that--he wants to eat too.

    I am sick of people arguing about sighted vs. unsighted and what is better, etc. Armchair warriors like to argue about such things. They can try to enamour people with their book knowledge, when the closest they came to combat was the airsoft match last week.

    Come back to me after being on the business end of an AK at 10 yds and tell me what works--I guarantee you after you change your underwear and your gun is at slidelock, (because you thought you fired 3 rds and you really emptied your mag in 2 seconds) you will say that AK looked like a 105 howitzer and that is all you saw until it was over because primal instinct to survive over-rode your training to concentrate on the front sight. True Story.

    Come on fellas--let's get real about training, otherwise we are ******* in the wind.
    Come back to me when Rob Pincus tells you about his combat experience facing an AK 47 at ten yards.
    And you come back to me when you have faced some armed criminals as I have.
    I am not saying that Combat Focus not work.
    Hell, I for one am a big fan of point shooting, so I am sure that it does.
    I am saying that is is nothing more than point shooting repackaged.

  15. #14
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    Lets not argue about which technique or name is best. We have been down this road before , if this posts slips into a flame fest it will be closed.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


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    wizardofgore,

    I agree worth reading and watching. I would not call it point shooting. It is more a mindset he teaches. His technique is for combat shooting, not bullseye shooting.

    If he teaches skills that are threat focused at any time, he teaches point shooting. I'm trying to understand how you can teach mindset without physical skills and those skills are either threat focused, some form of the MT sighted fire, or a combination of both.

    Matt,

    It is amazing how so many can bash something for decades and then embrace the same exact thing when outfitted with a new name.

    I don't think it was so much the Combat Focus Shooting course title as it was Robs affiliation with the Valhalla Training center.

    HadjiKlr74,

    You quoted this from Robs book,

    That said, let's be clear, Combat Focus Shooting is not a system based on never using your sights. It is about understanding the balance of Speed & Precision and the principal of Combat Accuracy. A shot is Combat Accurate if it significantly effects the targets ability to present a lethal threat."

    Thats mindset has been reiterated on the net on various forums like this one for 5-7 years by scores of other people. Nothing revelatious there.

    Before we start bashing the man, let him defend himself.

    Hmm, 5 people responded in the first 6 followup posts after your initial post. Not one has come close to bashing Rob that I can tell, and I reread every post again just to be sure as I hadn't gotten that impression when you made the comment about bashing him. If you would, please explain who you think was being combative and bashing Rob or his system.

    I can tell you from experience, the Modern Technique is flawed and not realistic in many aspects.

    That has been reiterated on the net on various forums like this one for 5-7 years by scores of other people. Nothing enlightening in that statement as well.

    The system Rob is teaching is not "point shooting" at all--it is simply stated, working with what your body does naturally under stress,

    Again, do a search here and on other forums, plenty of information about this subject decades before the "book" Rob wrote.

    I'm about to find out first hand in one of his courses what Combat Focus Shooting is and isn't. 39 years of MT skills knowledge, 27 years on threat focused skills, I'm sure I'll be able to distinguish just where his combat focus fits in the realm of handgun SD skills.

    Semper Fi HadjiKlr74

    Brownie
    The mind is the limiting factor

    Quick Kill Rifle and Pistol Instructor

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