Point shooting - Applegate style.

This is a discussion on Point shooting - Applegate style. within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; "I'd rather be a guy who knew little of all the cool tactical tricks and could draw and fire accurately into a 6" target (3-5) ...

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Thread: Point shooting - Applegate style.

  1. #31
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    The Fine Line

    "I'd rather be a guy who knew little of all the cool tactical tricks and could draw and fire accurately into a 6" target (3-5) rounds in <3 sec at ranges out to 25yrds than the latest tactical ninja with all his shooting school diplomas."

    3 to 5 rounds in less than 3 Seconds is sometimes not exactly what is needed to shoot SHTF defensively.
    That is unless "Less Than 3 Seconds" also means that the first shot will be off & headed toward the intended BG in more like 1.5 Seconds.

    I am just wondering how many top shooters get off 3-5 accurate rounds in 3 seconds drawing from under a cover garment or from down in the pants with a jacket on? Not too many I'll venture.
    It's sort of a whole different ball of wax.

    When a physically fit young Bad Guy can cover 30' in 1.5 Seconds & then knock 3' off that distance that for the length of the average Baseball Bat then IDEAL "draw and aimed fire" taking 3 Seconds - allows 1.5 Seconds of Baseball Bat Crushing The Brain Case.

    Just a thought.

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  3. #32
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    When a physically fit young Bad Guy can cover 30' in 1.5 Seconds
    That QK highlights very nicely our need - no, mandate - to maintain awareness.

    In cond' white this would be ''dog meat'' scenario very possibly.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  4. #33
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    Fortunately, an adversary rushing headlong towards us has given up his ability to move, and will present a rather stable head shot if we use the sights as we sidestep the line of force. Believing that we need to practice on moving targets to simulate real events takes away from the time we should be practicing hitting while we are moving.
    Liberty, Property, or Death - Jonathan Gardner's powder horn inscription 1776

    Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.
    ("Do not give in to evil but proceed ever more boldly against it.")
    -Virgil, Aeneid, vi, 95

  5. #34
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    gunthorp,

    Good point about the moving guy, I agree, but training on moving targets is important also. The threat won't always be running straight toward us and we need to know how to pivot and index on a moving target. Also, a laterally moving target can stop and start which could really cause problems.

  6. #35
    Member Array Jim_Linch's Avatar
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    Something I've found on lateral moving targets is that after years of shooting "movers" in IPSC (drop turners, swingers) is that I found it fairly easy to hit a sporadic (instructor controlled) target even behind a row of "no-shoots."

    Another plus for IPSC. :) Not trying to push IPSC, but the more I think about it, the more this "unrealistic" sport does shine for training the fundamentals of "real world" scenarios even if the stages seem unrealistic.

  7. #36
    Member Array LPguy's Avatar
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    Try this "point" shooting method.

    Your finger is along the trigger guard pointing at your target (your target is 21 feet or less) your objective it to hit the center of mass. Don't be too fussy other than that. Pretty much whatever you "point" at, you're gonna hit.

    Don't believe me? Try it with a small flashlight first. Point the flashlight with your index finger on the switch. Push the switch and you will hit what you are pointing to.

    Mike

  8. #37
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    Low Light & Moving Targets AKA Roving Bad Guys

    I am finding out that as I age gracefully I am having more trouble shooting accurately in very low light & partial darkness.
    My eyes used to be like Night Vision but, are not as good these days.
    Most problems that I'll ever encounter will likely be in low light & that has me somewhat concerned.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  9. #38
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    as I age gracefully
    Shucks QK - I am aging aggressively

    Nothing graceful about it
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  10. #39
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by P95Carry
    Shucks QK - I am aging aggressively

    Nothing graceful about it
    Over the HILL...and gaining speed?

    For me...it ain't the YEARS....it's the mileage...
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  11. #40
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    I'm certainly no pro, but I'll tell you what gave me the most mileage: learning to triangulate with my sights. If you can learn to do it in situations where you don't need a pin-point hit (minute-of-thug) at reasonable ranges, it'll drop your times at shorter range targets. It just involves understanding the triangulated relationship among your front site, the target, and your eyeball. My ability to do this effectively has also been increased by something I saw on a video about being aware, and so learning over time, how to index, or point to the target, with your support-hand thumb when using a two-handed grip.

    Seems to really have helped me make a big jump in performance - When both hands meet the pistol and I beging to push it out toward the target, I can feel where my off-side thumb is pointing, verify it by triangulating the sites, and get an effective shot off before the gun comes all the way up where it'd have to for me to alight the sights on the target.

    Best,
    Jon
    "You may not know it, but there's things that gnaw at a man worse than dyin'."

    Charles Travis Postlewaite, 1882

  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle
    Good point about the moving guy, I agree, but training on moving targets is important also. The threat won't always be running straight toward us and we need to know how to pivot and index on a moving target. Also, a laterally moving target can stop and start which could really cause problems.
    I agree, Tangle! If a bad guy is coming hard at me with the intent to cut my throat, I don't believe I'm going to be trying to hit him in the head with the first (or the first few!) rounds.

    Best,
    Jon
    "You may not know it, but there's things that gnaw at a man worse than dyin'."

    Charles Travis Postlewaite, 1882

  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunthorp
    Fortunately, an adversary rushing headlong towards us has given up his ability to move, and will present a rather stable head shot if we use the sights as we sidestep the line of force. Believing that we need to practice on moving targets to simulate real events takes away from the time we should be practicing hitting while we are moving.
    Yes sir! Move the gun, yes, but move yourself too!

    Best,
    Jon
    "You may not know it, but there's things that gnaw at a man worse than dyin'."

    Charles Travis Postlewaite, 1882

  14. #43
    Senior Member Array Matthew Temkin's Avatar
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    I am afraid that I am coming late to the party, but I just got on board this train.
    I was in close contact with Col. Applegte from 1991 until his death in 1998.
    This included a weeks stay at his ranch in July, 1996 where I received some hands on training from him.
    Since most NYPD gunfights happen within 7 feet--and I suspect the same is true for CCW holders--I have always felt the Applegate/W.E. Fairbairn/E.A. Sykes approach to point shooting to be a vital tool for survival shooting.
    I will be happy to answer any questions concerning the method, as well as provide outlines/home study training course/reading list free of charge to any interested parties.
    This could be a new thread, should the powers that be give me the nod to post the material here.

  15. #44
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    Matt - if you wish to open a new thread on this I reckon that'd be fine.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  16. #45
    Member Array Dave James's Avatar
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    Matt, didn't know you where here... guess us ole PS tend to travel in the same circles

    MR.Bryce, was the fastest and deadliest shot I ever knew

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