CCW in Northern NV

This is a discussion on CCW in Northern NV within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I think we need to respect our vets better than this and especially our instructors that come from a military background. Fellow vets, > > ...

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Thread: CCW in Northern NV

  1. #1
    New Member Array jeff1911's Avatar
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    CCW in Northern NV

    I think we need to respect our vets better than this and especially our instructors that come from a military background.
    Fellow vets,
    >
    > While searching for information on concealed handgun courses here
    > in Reno, Nevada I came across this insult from some local
    > know-it-all firearms instructors:
    >
    > *"Military experience does not have much to do with real life."
    > *-- Dave Keller and Mike Robbins, Sierra Firearms Academy.
    >
    > ***?? I don't know about you, but this pisses me off. I don't
    > appreciate this one bit. So, I didn't fight on Iwo Jima or in
    > Fallujah, but I damn sure shot a lot of weapons when I was in the
    > Corps. I don't need a couple of hooker-busting, drunk-rousting,
    > donut-munching street cops from Reno telling me that my military
    > service counts for nothing and doesn't have "much to do with
    real
    > life." Who are these people to tell me about real life? Sounds
    > like a typical "us versus them" haughty cop attitude. If you
    > ain't a cop, you ain't shite, in other words. I have nothing
    > against cops, but these jokers - *ex cops*- by the way - need a
    > smackdown. In lieu of that, an apology. Let them know how you
    > feel. I will. And I'll be sure that everyone at my VFW does ,too.

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  3. #2
    New Member Array jeff1911's Avatar
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    Sorry missed the link in the email.

    Introduction

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    Quote Originally Posted by jeff1911 View Post
    I think we need to respect our vets better than this and especially our instructors that come from a military background.
    Fellow vets,
    >
    > While searching for information on concealed handgun courses here
    > in Reno, Nevada I came across this insult from some local
    > know-it-all firearms instructors:
    >
    > *"Military experience does not have much to do with real life."
    > *-- Dave Keller and Mike Robbins, Sierra Firearms Academy.
    >
    > ***?? I don't know about you, but this pisses me off. I don't
    > appreciate this one bit. So, I didn't fight on Iwo Jima or in
    > Fallujah, but I damn sure shot a lot of weapons when I was in the
    > Corps. I don't need a couple of hooker-busting, drunk-rousting,
    > donut-munching street cops from Reno telling me that my military
    > service counts for nothing and doesn't have "much to do with
    real
    > life." Who are these people to tell me about real life? Sounds
    > like a typical "us versus them" haughty cop attitude. If you
    > ain't a cop, you ain't shite, in other words. I have nothing
    > against cops, but these jokers - *ex cops*- by the way - need a
    > smackdown. In lieu of that, an apology. Let them know how you
    > feel. I will. And I'll be sure that everyone at my VFW does ,too.
    I took my nonresident Nevada CCW training from Semper Firearms. Of course, the instructors were, you guessed it, former Marines. I enjoyed the class tremendously and they stressed safety and doing what it takes to stay alive, to run if possible, shoot if it's the last resort. These guys are good and I recommend them to anybody.

  5. #4
    Member Array Con43's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeff1911 View Post
    I think we need to respect our vets better than this and especially our instructors that come from a military background.
    Fellow vets,
    >
    > While searching for information on concealed handgun courses here
    > in Reno, Nevada I came across this insult from some local
    > know-it-all firearms instructors:
    >
    > *"Military experience does not have much to do with real life."
    > *-- Dave Keller and Mike Robbins, Sierra Firearms Academy.
    >
    > ***?? I don't know about you, but this pisses me off. I don't
    > appreciate this one bit. So, I didn't fight on Iwo Jima or in
    > Fallujah, but I damn sure shot a lot of weapons when I was in the
    > Corps. I don't need a couple of hooker-busting, drunk-rousting,
    > donut-munching street cops from Reno telling me that my military
    > service counts for nothing and doesn't have "much to do with
    real
    > life." Who are these people to tell me about real life? Sounds
    > like a typical "us versus them" haughty cop attitude. If you
    > ain't a cop, you ain't shite, in other words. I have nothing
    > against cops, but these jokers - *ex cops*- by the way - need a
    > smackdown. In lieu of that, an apology. Let them know how you
    > feel. I will. And I'll be sure that everyone at my VFW does ,too.
    I also took my training from Semper Firearms. Great instructor and nice facility. Covered all needed aspects and then some of concealed carry. I would reccomend this facility and instructor to anyone wanting knowledgeable and competent training. All veterns wanting this type training should come here."Military experience does not have much to do with real life". I submit being a cop for X number of years is no guarantee of real life experience either. They operate in there own little world of us against them and there rules are not the rules everyone else must follow. There "real life" perspective usally follows these line also. I would much rather have a Force Recon/Ranger/Seal in my corner when SHTF then any of the "Joe Jocks/Sally Cheerleaders who thought it might be neet to be a cop.

  6. #5
    Member Array uakaos's Avatar
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    being from reno myself this kinda pisses me off.
    im a huge supporter of the military and guys that say stuff like that should be cracked in the jaw.
    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it."

  7. #6
    Senior Member Array Sweatnbullets's Avatar
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    There is a lot more to being a good firearms instructor than what uniform you use to wear.

    I am pro LEO/military/civilian firearms instructor, as long as they know what they are doing and take good care of their students.

    I am anti-elitest, no matter how much they know or who they are.

  8. #7
    New Member Array jeff1911's Avatar
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    Absolutely pro military pro cops pro gun and all for seeing those who provide good service and products surviving and thriving. Just don't tell me my military experience has little to do with real life.
    I learned alot not just about weapons but a lot about people and leadership and what makes a man.
    I equate this to Massad Ayoob saying Jeff Cooper ain't jack. I beg to differ.

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    Distinguished Member Array Anubis's Avatar
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    In looking at the linked web page, I did not see the quoted phrase "Military experience does not have much to do with real life."

    I did see "Mike is a US Army Infantry veteran, so knows the difference between military warfare and civilian violence. While there are similarities, they are few", which seems fairly reasonable and not insulting.

  10. #9
    New Member Array C.W. Fischer's Avatar
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    I would like to second the recommendation of Semper Fi. They are outstanding.

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    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    Believe me I'm very pro Military, pro concealed carry, and very much a heart blood pumping American who believes in supporting the military as well as supporting the commander in chief.

    I can see where both sides are coming from and I think both sides have there points. I have trained a few a few guys both civilian and Military.

    Military service counts for a lot and I will say thank you to any vet who served our country in war or time of peace, since they basically sacrificed their own personal freedom to keep others safe.

    However, IMO this is not to be taken mean or demeaning in any fashion I don't know if relating Military service to Concealed Carry is the same. Nor do I think Law Enforcement Training is equal either.

    I think they are 3 completely different animals.

    Military/LE can assume a more Offensive role with their firearms training (Proactive)
    Civilians are general strictly defensive (Reactive) this requires a semi differn't mindset as well as different training techniques both tactical and awareness.

    Some of them do over lap with each others techniques but it does differ in some very important areas like legal, liability.

    Also, the gear that one carriers in each of the three varies. Military carry Rifles/Machine guns some carry pistols, in a Drop leg, Flap holster, shoulder holster etc.......LE carry a belt holster generally with at minimum 2 levels sometimes 3 levels of retention. Civilians outside of their homes (for the most part are concealed) and carry in a multiple differn't modes of carry. Brief cases, purses, ankles, shoulders, Strong sides, tuckables, SOB, Cross draw.

    But just like the UH-60 Blackhawk Pilot who suddenly gets slotted to fly AH-64 he must go through some type of retraining or FAM situation in order to be checked off as GTG. Yes some of the controls over lap on the chopper they both are rotary wing but they serve 2 completly differn't missions and have differn't methods of flying.

    IMO CIVILIAN vs. MIILTARY vs. LE. Is no differn't depending on which hat/role your playing at the moment. If Rob Leatham wanted to be Delta Force would they check the box because hes probably one of the best pistol shooters in the world, I sincerly doubt it.

    Maybe this instructor came off a little rompus with his choice of words but I some what agree with his way of thinking. If I'm your instructor I'm certainly not going to check you off just because of a prior organization you belonged to. I"m going to train you the way I'm supposed to depending on the standard that you need to know.

    Quote Originally Posted by jeff1911 View Post
    Absolutely pro military pro cops pro gun and all for seeing those who provide good service and products surviving and thriving. Just don't tell me my military experience has little to do with real life.
    I learned alot not just about weapons but a lot about people and leadership and what makes a man.
    I equate this to Massad Ayoob saying Jeff Cooper ain't jack. I beg to differ.
    From your stand point I would agree your correct! Since it seems like you 've done your research on all 3 topics and may understand what hat you NEED to be wearing in regards to what activity your doing. However, I've seen seen at our range a lot uniformed LE and Military folks come in who claim to know how to shoot a gun because they where In the Military/LE. I ask them what gun they want to rent and I they usually say well I've shot a 9mm I think I want to shoot a .45. I usually wait for them to tell me which one of the 13 we rent out. Then say "Do you have a Manufacturer your interested in?" Response, "Just a Standard .45? After, my blank look and me usually saying OKAY!!!! That still leaves me with about 13. I usually say I think your asking for a 1911. Sometimes they ask me if it has a safety. At that point I can't rent it to them because to rent one they have to Intimately familiar with that gun.

    So I know what your saying but IMO in order to know how to do a specific task, technique, or activity you must have training on that equipment.

    Just a thought!
    Last edited by Rob99VMI04; May 15th, 2008 at 04:35 PM.
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

    Its not about guns...Its about Freedom!

  12. #11
    New Member Array jeff1911's Avatar
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    They decided to remove it from the website and then add in the prior military experience. Poor choice of words but those in the know understand where it was coming from and was a direct attack against a competitor just like the threat of being arrested for shooting in the bushes a long time Northern NV tradition. Maybe they have learned.

  13. #12
    Member Array calmp9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Con43 View Post
    I also took my training from Semper Firearms. Great instructor and nice facility. Covered all needed aspects and then some of concealed carry. I would reccomend this facility and instructor to anyone wanting knowledgeable and competent training. All veterns wanting this type training should come here."Military experience does not have much to do with real life". I submit being a cop for X number of years is no guarantee of real life experience either. They operate in there own little world of us against them and there rules are not the rules everyone else must follow. There "real life" perspective usally follows these line also. I would much rather have a Force Recon/Ranger/Seal in my corner when SHTF then any of the "Joe Jocks/Sally Cheerleaders who thought it might be neet to be a cop.
    SFA is aiming this at Semper Firearms but it backfired on them. It's obvious that they have managed to offend a very important group of people, those who served and risked their lives to defend our national security. I have never served, but they definitely have my respect.

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    I have taken a lot training at Sierra Firearms Academy ever since it's inception. The instructors there, Mike and Dave, are excellent. I honestly think the comment you quoted was not meant to be disparaging toward military men or the military but simply meant to illustrate the difference between military and civilian tactics and training.

    Perhaps an e-mail to them asking for clarification might have been better than jumping to a conclusion.
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

    "A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
    judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
    superior skills."

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