IDPA & Training: Putting your skills to use

IDPA & Training: Putting your skills to use

This is a discussion on IDPA & Training: Putting your skills to use within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Anyone use IDPA to put the skills that you learned in defensive pistol courses to the test?...

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  1. #1
    Ex Member Array HK91's Avatar
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    IDPA & Training: Putting your skills to use

    Anyone use IDPA to put the skills that you learned in defensive pistol courses to the test?


  2. #2
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    I like shooting IDPA matches personally. It puts a third dimension to the training regiment I believe.

  3. #3
    Member Array HighVelocity's Avatar
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    I shoot a lot of IDPA. It is not training. It is a game. A very fun game at that.

    Gary

  4. #4
    Senior Member Array HowardCohodas's Avatar
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    I like shooting in matches to improve my confidence and competence in using my weapon. Even if you don't think you are competitive, the pressure you put on yourself in a match is a good way of conditioning yourself to operate in high adrenalin situations. And it's fun.
    Howard
    I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop!!
    Politically Incorrect Self Defense

  5. #5
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    The IDPA training/game controversy is as strong as 9mm v. .45 or steel guns v. plastic guns.

    If you treat IDPA as a game, that is all you will get. If you treat it as training you must be aware that it covers only so much but beats static range shooting which is less than nothing and it is also what most of the shooters get as defensive training. IDPA is basic elementary defensive shooting sort of like First, Second and maybe Third grade in elementary school.

    There is a strong current of Gamers within IDPA that want to see it moved more into a game: they want lasers and optics and whathaveyou. So far Headquarters has not relented and lots of shooters hate the idea since IDPA was formed because IPSC lost its original bearings as self defense style shooting and became a horse race.

    If the first rule in a gunfight is to Have A Gun, the true second rule is Do Not Get Shot and IDPA teaches this by insisting on the use of cover and concealment. I have not seen other shooting sport save TSA (Tactical Shooting Association) that encourages this. Ecourage heck! It is mandatory.

    I cannot speak for all IDPA clubs save for mine and the one in the Keys but in these two particular cases we have shooters who never shot before and pulled out the gun of the box brand new the day of their first match, learned to shoot IDPA and then went on to expand their knowledge taking classes with good respectable instructors or attended shooting schools. And yes, when they get to that level, they see IDPA as a game but not with derision because it got them started in the right path. And also it is trigger time in a non-static range with scenarios in which now they can choose to shoot as a game if they are in the mood to do it as such or as training refresher if they want to go that way. Usually when they do the last, their scores suffer and don't rank high but who cares?

    Unless you own your own range, no commercial or public range will allow you to draw and move, go down to your knees or prone, seek and shoot from cover, shoot multiple targets, etc. IDPA gives you that. Is it a class in LFI or Thunder Ranch or Valhalla? Nope, but it a start, it teaches you some basics and it is trigger time with a purpose. What you do with it is up to you. You can ca treat it as a game or you can treat it as training. I can't afford to go an train every 2 weeks at Southern Exposure Training with Randy Cain or Louie Awerbuck but I sure can go to my IDPA matches and refresh the basics.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

    Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
    Signed: Me!

  6. #6
    Senior Member Array Cthulhu's Avatar
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    Training is a mentality.

    You can shoot IDPA as training. It isn't likely you'll win, but you can train many things, depending on the courses of fire that are set up.

    On the other hand, you can do what many do and 'game' it, and shoot only to win.

    'Practice' could be a combination of the two mentalities.

    My two yen...

    -JT

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    I shoot IDPA and and some of the techniques you do in IDPA you would not want to do in real life.

    Heres what IDPA does do for you in IMO. It gets you off a static Range. Alllows you to think and move, and shoot. And come up with problem solving situations instead of just shooting at blank 2 dimensional paper. Now you have move your feet and get outside the BOX litterly and shoot at 2 dimensional Card Board.
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

    Its not about guns...Its about Freedom!

  8. #8
    Senior Member Array Cthulhu's Avatar
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    +1 Miggy

    The group I shoot with has formed an IDPA committee composed of SO's and the match director to decide how IDPA will be shot for our group. They've recently announced (or will soon announce) that PROPER use of concealment/cover will be taken into account during the matches. Many people have very good scores because they are not utilizing concealment/cover correctly, and just poking their guns around corners.

    Personally, I really like that enforcement of the rules. A lot of the 'gamers' won't.

    -JT

  9. #9
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    It is not training. It is a game.
    Well, maybe I'm just too new at it. Maybe I just get a bit more out of it than you? Who was it now that commented here a while back about the USPSA being a bunch of airsoft folks upgrading to live ammunition?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu View Post
    Many people have very good scores because they are not utilizing concealment/cover correctly, and just poking their guns around corners.

    Personally, I really like that enforcement of the rules. A lot of the 'gamers' won't.

    -JT
    Cthulhu, Make sure to strike a balance between enforcement and fun. I give New Shooters a break on their first stage if they make a booboo but take them to one side and explain what they did wrong. Next stage they get dinged if they repeat the mistake and that is when it starts to settle in. I tend to get nastier with gamers, specially if we are going to a sanctioned match. Amazingly, alongside the cover, the most common violation happens before they even draw and is they start moving in anticipation of the beep. And yes, I am the sob that goes :Shooter Is Ready, Stand by (wait anywhere for 4 to 10 seconds) BEEP!" although I am thinking on loosing the beep right before I finish saying Stand-By
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

    Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
    Signed: Me!

  11. #11
    Distinguished Member Array Reborn's Avatar
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    The thing about competition is stress. There is an added stress factor when people are watching you and going against time. I shot against other agencies during my LEO days. It was great. Now I compete against other tactical trainers and LEO ranger masters.
    Psalms 144:1
    Blessed be the Lord my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight.
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  12. #12
    Senior Member Array Cthulhu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miggy View Post
    Cthulhu, Make sure to strike a balance between enforcement and fun. I give New Shooters a break on their first stage if they make a booboo but take them to one side and explain what they did wrong. Next stage they get dinged if they repeat the mistake and that is when it starts to settle in. I tend to get nastier with gamers, specially if we are going to a sanctioned match. Amazingly, alongside the cover, the most common violation happens before they even draw and is they start moving in anticipation of the beep. And yes, I am the sob that goes :Shooter Is Ready, Stand by (wait anywhere for 4 to 10 seconds) BEEP!" although I am thinking on loosing the beep right before I finish saying Stand-By

    I'm not on the committee , but I think the members that are on the committee won't rulebook the shooters to death. However, those that relied purely on their 'gaming' for good scores will probably get miffed until they learn to adjust.

    I'm sure there will be warnings for new shooters and gamers alike. I think the new shooters will appreciate the warning and opportunity to correct a bad habit. The gamers, not so much

    -JT

  13. #13
    Distinguished Member Array kazzaerexys's Avatar
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    Keeping in mind that every form of training is to some extent a game, in that your life is not really at stake and you are not going to kill somebody, I think Miggy and Cthulhu already nailed it---you certainly can get training value out of it. Depending on how inherently competitive you are, it may be hard when that beep goes off to think about training and technique rather than time. That's up to you, of course.

    As for me, well, I will happily use my MTAC and a normal cover garment for local club matches. When I go to the sanctioned PA State match tomorrow, I will be using my Blackhawk and a shoot-me vest (and I would be firing powder-puff loads that barely make power factor if I loaded my own, too!).
    “What is a moderate interpretation of [the Constitution]? Halfway between what it says and [...] what you want it to say?” —Justice Antonin Scalia

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  14. #14
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    Way back when ( pleas do not make age slurs ) IPSC was new and sweeping the country . Before i became the range officer , and for a time after ( untill i could set up a non square range... as a side note ranges cost $$ that will not be in a budget LOL ) i both shot and attempted to encorage my " gun oriented officers " into ipsc due solely to the scenarios . Hell i bought bullets and powder out of my pocket several times to keep them shooting ( had one guy who would reload , and not short stroke a progressive ( which i bought too lol , a junk lee ) too many times . We shot matches , we lost matches , Not because we couldnt shoot , it was a rare thing for us to be out scored on target . We got our butts kicked on time ( we had too much per stage) and tactics ( we had too much ) lol . Real world tactics dont lend themselves to " fun games " If your in a robery at the local " stop and rob " in a small town the local constabulary will likely be there before you can so much as clear the isles you can see . If you think the gameing barricade technique works well you will die young enough to make a pretty corpse . this is one place that my crew lost time , many were dq'd because they would step out of the box on barricade ( to them it wasnt support , and it wasnt cover , it was concealment that might disrupt bullet path if they were far enough back ) or they would slice the pie untill they found the target . Just food for thought , and i have to say that one of the local business men shot as a gamer , and had he slowed down a bit he could have had real promice but he over shot his abilitys . He chided me and the officers on our slow times , i then ran a gamer run only i made it a point to head shoot all hostages . He advised my time was admirable with a " stock gun " but my accuracy was deplorable. I just pointed out to him that if his buisness ( a liquor store ) was held up i would be the first one thro the door to come get him . Tho unintended he counted headshots on hostages and my agencys reserve orginisation had a $300. donation in a few days from his business .
    Point is that IDPA came about to cure the gamer in IPSC that did not work . Nor ever can it . It is still a great tool , just ignore the " factored " score and then if ever ( your god (s) ) forbid you have to do it in real life you score will be apparent . For myself i have managed to muddle thro a couple of times that things went rodeo . I have to say tho i came out well due to luck not wisdom .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
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  15. #15
    Member Array HighVelocity's Avatar
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    If in doubt, read the IDPA website.

    International Defensive Pistol Association - What is IDPA?

    It is a "sport", by Bill Wilson's own definition.

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