Worse double feed I have ever seen
This is a discussion on Worse double feed I have ever seen within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I am in a basic defensive handgun class. The instructor is covering how to clear a malfunction. We go over the basic tap, rack and ...
July 29th, 2008 11:33 AM
Worse double feed I have ever seen
I am in a basic defensive handgun class. The instructor is covering how to clear a malfunction. We go over the basic tap, rack and reassess; Then we cover the double feed clearing. Pretty basic. Tap, rack, reassess, fire. Still no bang. Then lock slide open, release mag, rack slide several times, insert new one, rack, reassess. Again. Pretty standard. We go over these several times and the class gets it.
About an hour later one guy gets a double feed. One of the instructor just happens to be near by and comes over to to help him because something is wrong. As is the case, the instructor starts delineating the basic steps:
Lock the slide open - check
Release mag - nothing
Release mag - nothing (repeats command)
Use your left hand to release mag - nothing
Pull down on the mag hard - nothing
At this point the instructor calls a cease fire and takes control of the firearm. He tries to release the magazine and it is stuck. Nay. It was welded to the gun. This was the worst double feed I have ever seen.
I am not 100% sure how they got the magazine out, but what ended up happening was this. The firearm was a S&W 1911. Nice gun. The magazine lip apparently cracked and when the round feed, it expanded the lip to the point that it just would not release the magazine. I saw them pry it out with one of their knives but I would not want to be the one doing that.
The magazine was toast. We then had a discussion about replacing magazines. One of the instructors is a cop and he says that he replaces his duty mags every 6 months whether he fires them or not. Says it is cheap insurance and now I can understand why.
Preparing for the Zombie Apocalypse or Rapture....whichever comes first.
July 29th, 2008 12:01 PM
Originally Posted by exactlymypoint
Wow, sorry, I have to disagree with him BIG time. A mag doesn't go bad over time just sitting in the gun. It's absolutely true that mags are a vital part of the weapon system. Different makes and even individual mags of the same manufacturer can perform differently in the same gun. I treat mags like ammo. When I find the ones that work in the gun, I don't mess with them. Don't misunderstand, I inspect them for wear and tear, and maintain them properly. If they need replacement springs or followers they get them and when they finally die, they're given an appropriate burial and we move on. But just becase a mag is new and unused doesn't mean it's necessarily even going to work......even if it's identical to the one that it's replacing. IMHO, he's not only wasting his money, he's running a risk by swapping out a key component when he doesn't have to!
BTW.....what does he do with these 6 month old, relatively unused mags? I'll take them off his hands for a fair price!
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in a grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
July 29th, 2008 12:27 PM
You didn't happen to see what kind of magazines he was using did you?
All magazines are certainly NOT created equal. Maybe this guy will invest in some quality magazines after this.
People may think they are saving money and getting a good deal but there are just some things you shouldn't go cheap on. Magazines being one of them.
I had a customer bring in a Glock with HORRIBLE feeding and jamming problems (which is unusual for Glock).
We were looking over the gun and I picked up the magazine to find it just felt funny in my hand. I looked at it closer and from a distance you could have swore it was a Glock magazine but it wasn't. I don't even know who made it. It had no markings on it of any kind and when I asked him where he got the magazine as it was clearly not Glock he said he bought a bunch of them off the internet for super cheap.
We got a REAL Glock mag off the wall and started cycling some dummy ammo through it and "WELLA!!" it was cured!
As the guy was walking out of the shop he threw the old magazine in the trash. A fitting place for it.
July 29th, 2008 01:37 PM
I agree 100% with the last two posts; buy cheap, buy twice.
Replace mags every 6 months? Holy cow, what a waste of money. Are you sure it wasnt simply a rotate or perhaps even a rebuild? I can see that...
July 29th, 2008 01:41 PM
July 29th, 2008 01:54 PM
+1 backup gun... but I'd probably use a leatherman rather than my defensive knife!
July 29th, 2008 03:11 PM
Ask BAC about his fake Colt magazine.
Originally Posted by limatunes
July 29th, 2008 03:24 PM
Just a fyi since you mentioned Glock mags -- somebody, I think in Korea, ran a giant pile of fake G19 mags lately. I'm just wondering...
Originally Posted by limatunes
July 29th, 2008 04:19 PM
Originally Posted by David in FL
I've got some pretty old mags, especially for the Beretta M9 (92fs) and they have yet to fail. I recently ordered 3 more factory's just to stock up on mags.
I have replaced some mag springs in some 1911 mags that where otherwise crappy mags, but I don't run any of my 1911's withought Wilsons or Novaks.
Alot of new people to firearms will purchase very cheap mags from online vendors only to find them to be plain out shinola. Purchase factory mags and or upgrade your springs to Wolfs and you should have no problems running your mags for years and years, assuming you haven't put them into the deep blue sea without a cleaning.
U.S. Army retired
July 29th, 2008 05:13 PM
He replaces mags every six months? He must have meant rotate them/swap them out in rotation as SIXTO mentioned. If he did indeed mean he junks them for new ones, he's not an instructor I want to be training with based on his lack of knowledge about magazines.
I've got a first gen glock 17 bought in 87 that I use for training, I'm using the 6 non drop free mags [ 4 bought and the two that came with the gun ] that I bought that long ago that have never been cleaned or taken apart. No spring replacements, nada, nothing done to them but drop them out of the gun on the ground, pick em up after the string of fire, dust em off and reload em to capacity and fire them some more.
Just used those mags this morning on a private ITFTS one on one pistol course of fire. Another 350 downrange through them again this morning. They've been loaded and shot, loaded and shot for 90+K rounds through the gun and not once have I had a problem with any of them.
If that instructor is actually replacing his mags that often, please make contact with him and tell him I'll take em all instead of dumping them.
The mind is the limiting factor
Quick Kill Rifle and Pistol Instructor
July 29th, 2008 05:21 PM
I had a round set back enough to jam vertically in my 1911. What a P I T A to clear. Mag wouldn't drop, slide wouldn't move...stupid full length guide rod kept me from using the front of the slide to push back on.
it does suck to be sure.
"If I was an extremist, our founding fathers would all be extremists," he said. "Without them, we wouldn't have our independence. We'd be a disarmed British system of feudal subjectivity."
July 29th, 2008 06:10 PM
Have that instructor call me for my address for those wore out mags. This guy has more dollars than sense!! The scary part is, he probably learned this from someone else!!
When Seconds Count, The Cops Are Just Minutes Away!!
July 29th, 2008 06:17 PM
In the Defensive Pistol course I took they taught after locking the slide back ,RIP the magazine out. They stressed RIP. It probably will never fall free or pull out easily.
I have never even had to replace many 1911 magazines, let alone a Glock mag. They last nearly forever and that includes dropping them on wood, concrete,mud and gravel while shooting IDPA matches.
July 30th, 2008 12:50 AM
In the USCG Sector Baltimore armory, before we swaped out the berretta M9(92FS) for the Sig P229R-DAK we had buckets full of M9 mags that were probably at least a decade old and had thousands of rounds fired from them. These mags had been used and cleaned so many times the parc finish had worn off. The original base plates would fall off, dumping the spring, follower and rounds out the bottom. We would replace the base plate and the mags where good as new. It was a design flaw with the original milled aluminum base plate. The replacement plates where stamped steel and I don't think the problem will ever repeat itself. As long as you start with a good quality mag and dont abuse it, the mag should last as long as the gun itself. You may need to replace the mag spring after a few thousand rounds.-Jay
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