Disengagement training

Disengagement training

This is a discussion on Disengagement training within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Once a conflict starts where a person feels the need to pull a firearm and discharge it in defense of life or property I bet ...

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Thread: Disengagement training

  1. #1
    Member Array bigiceman's Avatar
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    Disengagement training

    Once a conflict starts where a person feels the need to pull a firearm and discharge it in defense of life or property I bet it can be difficult to stop the engagement, even when the person or persons who were originally a threat cease to be so because they retreat. In thinking the concept through myself I believe that until the gun was empty or the person I was shooting at was stopped I would keep shooting and stay engaged.

    Has anyone ever taken, or even heard of, any training to address this concept?

    The recent post of a liquor store owner pursuing looters is what makes me ask.
    But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself...
    "Baa."
    LTC(RET) Dave Grossman

    Revolutionary War Veterans Association Shooter Qualification: Cook


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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Just because a gun is introduced does not mean it will be fired and there are several instances where the threat was stopped once a gun was displayed,usually once a shot is fired usually the individual in some instances may empty his gun and not realise it or does not realise how many shots were fired,until you are in somebodys shoes you won't know exactly how you will react but chasing somebody while firing at them is not a good idea,but in some instances may be perfectly legal
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

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    yes, it should be a large part of any comprehensive SD training program.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    Member Array bigiceman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    yes, it should be a large part of any comprehensive SD training program.
    I would agree, have you actually seen training on this? Do you know of a facility that includes it?
    But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself...
    "Baa."
    LTC(RET) Dave Grossman

    Revolutionary War Veterans Association Shooter Qualification: Cook

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigiceman View Post
    I would agree, have you actually seen training on this? Do you know of a facility that includes it?
    Not sure exactly what you are looking for?

    I know you are not looking for a class on how to reholster you gun.

    It is you who is going to decide if you are going to shoot or not after you draw your weapon.

    That decision is going to be based you YOUR threat assessment determined between the time you draw your gun and just before you pull the trigger. The more training you get at higher skill levels is going to determine how capable you are in determining that.

    The more training you get, and the more knowledge of the rules of lethal force and how it applies in any given situation or scenario the quicker you will be able to make a determination to shoot or not to shoot.

    Bottom line is that you are authorized to use lethal force to repel an attack only if you are in "Immediate and otherwise unavoidable threat of being killed or serious crippling injury."

    If you pull your weapon, and the attacker immediately sees the error of his ways... breaks off his attack and retreats, obviously you shouldn't shoot at that point.

    At that point, you should keep your gun at the ready until you are sure he is in fact retreating and you don't face an ambush just around the corner. Then it's probably safe to reholster and get the heck out of there.

    At that point there's a big heated debate as to whether you should call the cops and inform them of the incident. I am of the opinion that most of the time YES, you should call the police. But that is a judgment call based on the situation at hand.

    Like stated earlier, and supported by statistics collected by Prof. John Lott, handguns are used for self defense thousands of times each year without firing a shot. Just the mere presence of the gun is enough to stop the attack.

    There is no law that states just because you draw your gun, you must shoot the attacker. In fact, there are definitely times when you probably should not shoot.

    So if you are looking for a school that teaches when lethal force should be used and how exactly you should disengage, for lack of a better term, I would recommend Ayoob's LFI-1 course as one of the best ones out there which goes over that type of concept.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigiceman View Post
    I would agree, have you actually seen training on this? Do you know of a facility that includes it?
    Yes, every reputable professional training class that I've ever been to that wasnt skill specific at least touched on this. They might not have came right out and noted "Now this is what you doe when the smoke clears" but the content was there.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    Member Array bigiceman's Avatar
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    What I was actually thinking of would be a class where the targets might flip from threat to non-threat in the course of the string of targets. In this manner the target that was a threat when you start shooting changes. This would simulate the original dangerous threat dropping their weapon or turning and running.

    This type of training only does so much to overcome our excitement when actually in a gunfight. I have heard from many different LEO sources that the most common condition of an officers handgun at the end of a gunfight is empty. That they kept shooting until the gun stopped them, and they didn't even realize it.
    But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself...
    "Baa."
    LTC(RET) Dave Grossman

    Revolutionary War Veterans Association Shooter Qualification: Cook

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    Ex Member Array jmsstnr's Avatar
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    I think we should make note of reaction times. Establishing a reaction as a product of perception and decision, which is finite and measurable, means you could produce an undesired event. i.e. you say stop, but the finger kept going.

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