Review of LFI-I Class

This is a discussion on Review of LFI-I Class within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Recently my wife and I had the pleasure of taking Massad Ayoob’s Lethal Force Institute course (LFI-1) in Live Oak, FL. For those who are ...

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Thread: Review of LFI-I Class

  1. #1
    Member Array Benthic's Avatar
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    Review of LFI-I Class

    Recently my wife and I had the pleasure of taking Massad Ayoob’s Lethal Force Institute course (LFI-1) in Live Oak, FL. For those who are interested in the class, I thought I’d post a brief review in an effort to assist others who may be considering enrolling.

    First a little about us. We’ve both owned handguns for several years and are casual shooters, but neither of us has ever had any sort of formal pistol training other than the one day course required to get our Florida concealed carry permit. We both carry regularly, which is to say almost all the time except when circumstances prohibit it. We began talking about getting some additional training back in the summer and once she discovered Ayoob’s course and figured out who he was, my wife was adamant that if we were going to take a class, this was the one. Who was I to argue?

    We thought the class itself was excellent. Admittedly this is the only firearm class we’ve ever taken so our frame of reference is limited in that regard, but we’re both instructors in other arenas so we are familiar with what makes a good class in general. Massad himself did the vast majority of the instruction, via both live lecture and videotape. He covered everything from legal definitions and appropriate use of deadly force, to how to interact with bystanders and police in the aftermath of a self defense shooting. He also brought in representatives from local Law Enforcement to discuss what we could expect from them if we ever were involved in a shooting, as well as the psychological aftermath we could expect from ourselves and how to deal with that. We were given every opportunity to ask questions and participate in discussions, and I took roughly 26 pages of notes during the entire course. At the end of the class we all took a written exam on the material covered.

    On the range our instruction began with basic marksmanship including stance, grip, sight picture, trigger control and reloading. These things were all practiced individually and then they were compiled into more complex skills including a drill that required us to shoot with our eyes closed. In addition to some standard stances we also covered some crouching and kneeling positions. At the end of the class we were required to shoot a standard course of fire for qualification and score. Lastly we all participated in and observed a Tueller Drill where each member of the class sprinted 21 feet as fast as they could and all our times were recorded. This became part of our class notes.

    Overall we thought the class was very well done and we learned a lot. In fact we’ve both made the observation that everyone who carries a firearm for self defense really ought to take this course (or it’s equivalent). The information covered was extremely valuable and the staff was very professional. In addition to the course material itself we gained some valuable contacts and friends. We’re already making plans to get out and practice the skills we learned and we're looking to take LFI-II next year as well.

    Brian

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    Member Array CharlieMike's Avatar
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    Great review. I plan on taking the class w/ my wife next time he is in our neck of the woods.

    The November class was too close to the holiday.

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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Thank you for the review.

    I've heard nothing but good things about the LFI courses, and I even recommend it to people based on Mas' reputation and what I've read of his work.

    I was suppossed to take LFI 1 in 2007, but this thing called a job has gotten in the way. I'm trying to get to 2009, and will find out in a couple of weeks if I get the time off that I requested for 2009. Wish me luck, I'm going to need it.

    I've had other training, most of it paid for by the taxpayers. This would be training on my own dime, requiring me to use Annual Leave.

    Biker

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    Member Array chenemf's Avatar
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    Glad you found such a good class.

    I keep telling myself that I am going to take a class but when I read the propaganda associated with the classes in my area I wonder if it is just macho nonsense or something worth while.

    So how did the Tueller Drill work? Was it just sprinting or was someone trying to shoot a target in the same time?

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    Member Array Benthic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chenemf View Post
    <snip>
    So how did the Tueller Drill work? Was it just sprinting or was someone trying to shoot a target in the same time?
    It was just sprinting. Each class member sprinted the requisite 21 feet while being timed by an instructor. You ran from a 'start' line to tag the hand of a classmate standing on the 'finish' line. We each had a chance to stand on the finish line too. The instructor recorded age, gender, height, weight, footwear and any relevant medical conditions of each runner (no names) in addition to the times. We had runners ranging from 20 to 88 years of age who turned in times from 1.28 seconds to 2.06 seconds.

    Brian

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    Senior Member Array threefeathers's Avatar
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    It's so neat to hear from someone who attended the course right after mine. And, two days after Mas was in Tombstone. I have my notes finished and am filming reading them this week and will be glad to share with you all. I'd certainly like a set of yours and perhaps we can all be in an LFI II class next year.

    BikerRN, If I can do anything to get you ready I'll do so.

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    Good deal....LFI-II was a trip....you'll enjoy it.
    USAF: Loving Our Obscene Amenities Since 1947

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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by threefeathers View Post
    It's so neat to hear from someone who attended the course right after mine. And, two days after Mas was in Tombstone. I have my notes finished and am filming reading them this week and will be glad to share with you all. I'd certainly like a set of yours and perhaps we can all be in an LFI II class next year.

    BikerRN, If I can do anything to get you ready I'll do so.
    Thank you Mr. Threefeathers sir.

    Wish me luck, that's what I need the most of. I have the cash, need the time. The wife came home with some money and I'm "itching" to spend it.

    Biker

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    Distinguished Member Array kazzaerexys's Avatar
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    Somebody make sure to start a thread when the 2009 schedule goes up at the LFI website. Then we can see who's interested in taking LFI-II where.
    “What is a moderate interpretation of [the Constitution]? Halfway between what it says and [...] what you want it to say?” —Justice Antonin Scalia

    SIG: P220R SS Elite SAO, P220R SAO, P220R Carry, P226R Navy, P226, P239/.40S&W, P2022/.40S&W; GSR 5", P6.

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    Member Array Captain38's Avatar
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    Unless it's changed, LFI-II involves students being outdoors actually shooting both handguns and shotguns and practicing disarming and retention techniques. I hope I am not merely repeating what someone else already has shared in a previous post.

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    Senior Member Array threefeathers's Avatar
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    I spent all day at the CPI Non-Viloent Crisis Intervention workshop which really fits in with LFI.
    But, I'm willing to travel to LFI II however Phoenix is exceptionally nice in the Fall and Spring and not bad during most winter days.

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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    It looks like I finally got lucky.

    April 2009, I have the time off and the money. I will be going to LFI 1. It's been twenty years in the making, as something has always come up. Now, it's my turn.

    I'll be sleeping in the truck, and may miss a meal or two, but I'm worth it.

    Biker

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    Senior Member Array threefeathers's Avatar
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    That's terrific, if it is the April Phoenix Class maybe I'll get a chance to run up for a day to assist with targets or something?

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    Benthic, I am curious if Mas, still offers his service to appear as an expert witness on behalf of any of his students who may be wrongfully accused in a self defense shooting case?

    I always thought that generous offer alone was worth the price of admission to his LFI courses.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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    JWM
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    I have read several of his books and many articles over the past twenty years. Been through two police academies. Police firearms instructor for the past 12 years. That said, I'm always looking for more training. Would LFI-1 be a good course for me ?, or would it be too basic ?

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