Cut / Don't cut

Cut / Don't cut

This is a discussion on Cut / Don't cut within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Recently while teaching a class full of people who had taken several firearms and edged weapons courses I asked who had done some sort of ...

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Thread: Cut / Don't cut

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array mercop's Avatar
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    Cut / Don't cut

    Recently while teaching a class full of people who had taken several firearms and edged weapons courses I asked who had done some sort of shoot / donít shoot training during a course? Everyone raised their hand, then I asked of those that had attended edged weapon training who had done any cut / donít cut training? No hands were in the air.

    For many people being armed with a knife is their primary deadly force option. In addition to that many people carry an edged weapon as back up deadly force option to supplement a pistol. No matter what category you fall into, have you consider under what circumstances you would use your knife in self-defense. Since a knife is a contact distance weapon it necessitates that you be within arms distance of your attacker. What actions would likely causes you to draw your knife before there is physical contact? If you are already in physical contact, have you trained to get your knife out while your attacker is trying to stop you from doing so? We teach that the knife is used to cut an attacker off or you.

    There are few things to consider when using a knife for self-defense. The first is that the attacker is going to be attacking you at conversation distance. Do you train to defend block/evade/misdirect fists, edged weapons and impact weapons with your reaction side hand while using your knife, or do you concentrate on just getting your cut in?

    If someone who carries a pistol goes to the range and all they do is shoot cardboard targets on command without having to ever justify their use of force, what would be the likely outcome if they are involved in a shooting? This is the same as training to draw a knife and cut without ever considering situations that would justify it.

    Choosing, carrying and using tools are the easy part. Knowing when and how to deploy them is hard, but the justification of use is the rub.


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    BAC
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    The action that necessitates its presentation might also necessitate its use. I think with a knife, unlike with a firearm, it's easier to decide cut/don't cut because the only time you can cut is at contact distance. If Homie and his friends are dissuaded by a flash of steel before they get closer than talking distance, it's a don't-cut; you couldn't cut if you wanted to. If Homie and his friends were a lot closer when they made you consider drawing that knife, and that knife is your chosen defensive weapon, the moment you draw that weapon is probably the moment you need to use it, too. In that case, cut (stab, whatever).

    While presenting a gun might be enough for a bad guy and their friends, I highly doubt a knife would have the same effect. For me, that means you only draw it early if you're about positive it will dissuade someone, or else you only draw it exactly when you need it. If you're in a position where you, with a knife, are presented a bad guy's gun, I think that's already a losing proposition and the further you are from the bad guy the worse your chances (my way of saying, charging a bad guy with a badder weapon than yours is probably one of those no-go situations).

    Did I completely miss the main point, mercop?


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  3. #3
    Senior Member Array mercop's Avatar
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    People become weapon/tool fixated especially when using a knife, they forget to use their other hand to direct/control/strike with it. They also seem to forget other martial training. Almost like they are in a wrestling match and want to do say something from Judo and in their mind say "that is not part of this game".

    There are four types of stops-
    Psychological- the fight never happens or they stop because of pain and second thoughts. Hard to gauge and never cast in stone.
    Central Nervous System- the brain or spinal cord is comprised. immediate like flipping a switch. Very unlikely in an edged weapon incident. More so with impact weapons.
    Circulatory- loss of blood, the most common in a edged weapon incident. Can take seconds to minutes and does may do very little to stop aggression.
    Structural bones/muscles and ligaments- primarily the collar bone (will deanimate the arm), elbow, the lynch pin of hand and weapon attacks, and the knee (needed for locomotion and base).

    Central nervous disruption and structural damage are the easiest to notice in the middle of the altercation. Unless they have a firearm, attacking the CNS, elbow and knee with violence with interrupt decision making, hand attacks including weapons and his range if he cannot walk. This is best accomplished with open hands and impact weapons. Add that to the damage done with your knife and you combat failure with redundancy. You will also be likely to be able to judge when it is over.- George

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    VIP Member Array AllAmerican's Avatar
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    As always... good stuff Mercop.
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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    In regard to the specific "four types of stops" I agree with Mercop 100%.
    I was speaking to this as a combat fact just yesterday in the knife thread.

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    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

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    Senior Member Array mercop's Avatar
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    Thanks guys, glad you like the stuff.- George

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    Quote Originally Posted by mercop View Post
    People become weapon/tool fixated especially when using a knife, they forget to use their other hand to direct/control/strike with it. They also seem to forget other martial training. Almost like they are in a wrestling match and want to do say something from Judo and in their mind say "that is not part of this game".

    There are four types of stops-
    Psychological- the fight never happens or they stop because of pain and second thoughts. Hard to gauge and never cast in stone.
    Central Nervous System- the brain or spinal cord is comprised. immediate like flipping a switch. Very unlikely in an edged weapon incident. More so with impact weapons.
    Circulatory- loss of blood, the most common in a edged weapon incident. Can take seconds to minutes and does may do very little to stop aggression.
    Structural bones/muscles and ligaments- primarily the collar bone (will deanimate the arm), elbow, the lynch pin of hand and weapon attacks, and the knee (needed for locomotion and base).

    Central nervous disruption and structural damage are the easiest to notice in the middle of the altercation. Unless they have a firearm, attacking the CNS, elbow and knee with violence with interrupt decision making, hand attacks including weapons and his range if he cannot walk. This is best accomplished with open hands and impact weapons. Add that to the damage done with your knife and you combat failure with redundancy. You will also be likely to be able to judge when it is over.- George
    Great reply. Well spoken, and very true.
    Beretta 92FS

  8. #8
    Senior Member Array mercop's Avatar
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    Thanks- George

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