Pressure points for self defense

This is a discussion on Pressure points for self defense within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by psychophipps This points to the need for your core unarmed techniques to be based upon leverage, balance disruption, and effective energy transfer ...

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Thread: Pressure points for self defense

  1. #16
    Member Array Tros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psychophipps View Post
    This points to the need for your core unarmed techniques to be based upon leverage, balance disruption, and effective energy transfer into your target rather than going for the super-fly, ninhitsu Point o' Screaming Death stuff until you've worked at it for...30 years or so.

    If you can get it right, it's gravy. If not, there is always hitting them in the face again.
    So right.
    Beretta 92FS

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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array mercop's Avatar
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    Pain compliance is a form of a psychological stop. The person has to make a mental decision to stop or comply. IMHO it has no place for citizens in reference self defense. It takes experience to know when it is working, otherwise it leads to task fixation which encourage people to remain stationary instead of moving on and through their target.

    What use would a citizen have to restrain someone during an attack? Isn't the idea to separate from the attacker when safe to do so? How would a citizen know there pressure point was being effective, the bad guy taps or says Uncle?- George

  4. #18
    Member Array Tros's Avatar
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    Logically, a citizen's best tactic is to avoid the situation all together; realistically that doesn't always happen. The gray scale between fight or flee is filled with multiple techniques that an individual should educate themselves on to find which tactics work best for their individual needs.

    With that said, mercop, I don't think anybody here is suggesting restraint techniques as a sole form of self defense. It has it's place, but restraint training would have minimal effect on the overall self defense aspect of things. Minimal, but could possibly be what separates a successful defensive situation from an unsuccessful situation.

    I guess, in short, I agree with you completely; I just also think a person needs to learn as much as possible so that in the rare instance, every little bit of knowledge will put them in an advantageous position.
    Beretta 92FS

  5. #19
    Senior Member Array psychophipps's Avatar
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    The best example of an unarmed civilian "Use of Force Continuum", for lack of a better term, I have seen yet came from my Small Circle Jujitsu sensei:

    Defend
    Counter
    Control
    Destroy

    It follows an easily describable chain of reactions where you attempt situational avoidance, counter their force with equal force while still attempting to disengage, attempt to subdue and/or control them by the minimum force necessary, and having everything else fail, teach them that their joints do, indeed, bend in the opposite direction of intended use if you really want them to.

    In today's litigious society you can't counter every attack with an immediate chop to the throat, an eye gouge up to your second knuckle(s), and finishing by detonating a random structural limb and/or joint. The same thing goes for any weapon use in a defensive situation.

  6. #20
    Senior Member Array mercop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tros View Post
    Logically, a citizen's best tactic is to avoid the situation all together; realistically that doesn't always happen. The gray scale between fight or flee is filled with multiple techniques that an individual should educate themselves on to find which tactics work best for their individual needs.

    With that said, mercop, I don't think anybody here is suggesting restraint techniques as a sole form of self defense. It has it's place, but restraint training would have minimal effect on the overall self defense aspect of things. Minimal, but could possibly be what separates a successful defensive situation from an unsuccessful situation.

    I guess, in short, I agree with you completely; I just also think a person needs to learn as much as possible so that in the rare instance, every little bit of knowledge will put them in an advantageous position.
    Agreed, everyone should be a lifelong student. An example would be first aid. The knowledge of how and wear to apply direct pressure will likely prove more helpful in more scenarios that starting and IV, that does not mean that you should not know how to start one.

  7. #21
    Member Array Loadedtech's Avatar
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    My tae kwon do and hopkito training has come to help me about 3 times in the past, last being an old roomate who owed me money and I wouldnt give his stuff back. him 6'2 300+ lbs, me 5'9 160, nice back kick to solarplex worked well on fattie to stop the situation. Love martial arts!
    CHP holder. EDC G27. I support VCDL, so glad to have them fighting for my rights.

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array KenpoTex's Avatar
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    *must resist the urge...*
    "Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina

    If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.

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  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by psychophipps View Post
    In today's litigious society you can't counter every attack with an immediate chop to the throat, an eye gouge up to your second knuckle(s), and finishing by detonating a random structural limb and/or joint. The same thing goes for any weapon use in a defensive situation.
    I might be misunderstanding what you're trying to say, but....
    ...if I'm attacked I'm doing whatever is necessary to stop that attack....period. Every threat is different, and the appropriate response should be used in each situation (ie: don't shoot someone because they merely push you). Throat punches, vascular neck restraints, eye-gouges, limb breakings, palm thrust to the nose, kicking in knees...they all have their place where appropriate. If need be I'll do any of the above if someone forces my hand....just like pulling the trigger on someone if they force my hand. We can't be concerned about getting sued when someone wants to break our face, beat us up for our wallet/car keys, stab or shoot us....we have to take care of business and stop when the threat has stopped.
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  10. #24
    Senior Member Array psychophipps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 64zebra View Post
    I might be misunderstanding what you're trying to say, but....
    ...if I'm attacked I'm doing whatever is necessary to stop that attack....period. Every threat is different, and the appropriate response should be used in each situation (ie: don't shoot someone because they merely push you). Throat punches, vascular neck restraints, eye-gouges, limb breakings, palm thrust to the nose, kicking in knees...they all have their place where appropriate. If need be I'll do any of the above if someone forces my hand....just like pulling the trigger on someone if they force my hand. We can't be concerned about getting sued when someone wants to break our face, beat us up for our wallet/car keys, stab or shoot us....we have to take care of business and stop when the threat has stopped.
    The issue at hand is that you fight the way you train. If every response you've trained in is some mondo-destructo series that will detonate random parts then your response to pretty much any threat is to detonate random parts. This was an issue I saw with my Kempo class once I grew up a bit and got past the initial "bullies can't pick on this gaming geek any more!" phase.

    Example: One of the techniques in my "A Box" is the old skool WWII Combatives Chin Jab. Basically, you block a kick, grab attempt, or strike with your left hand while stepping in and right-kneeing your opponent in the nads. As your attacking-leg foot touches the ground, you thrust up with your right hand as you step up and twist your hips unto the strike to deliver a devastating palm-heel strike to your opponents chin while clawing their eyes with your fingers adding to the power by them doubling over from getting junked. You hit someone with this puppy with some snap and torque and they're very likely to not be a threat anymore not to mention going to the ER for a while.
    Sounds great, right? It works on grabs, strikes, many weapon attacks, kicks, etc. Very powerful if used right, knocks people straight-the-you know what-out, and finishes situations right away. Of course, it also breaks jaws, can cause life-long neck damage, might break their neck and kill them, can crush their throat if you miss the jaw and kill them, and any number of any possible "very bad things once the police show up and some random who didn't see things the right way (or just plain ol' lies about what they saw or did) says you just took this dude out permanent-like for no reason".

    For this reason, you should practice a complete series of force options, including hand-to-hand, so you can gauge the situation and react accordingly rather than tearing the throat out of every stumbling drunk who grabs your collar at a bar because he thought you were the guy grabbing his GFs bum on the dance floor just now.

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array semperfi.45's Avatar
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    You only fight the way you train if you've been pounded good in the snot locker a few times. Some people just have not been in a knock down drag 'em out fight.
    Training means learning the rules. Experience means learning the exceptions.

  12. #26
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    ok maybe I did misunderstand what you were meaning, but you did type:
    Originally Posted by psychophipps View Post
    In today's litigious society you can't counter every attack with an immediate chop to the throat
    IMO....if its a true attack then one should defend themselves, if you are being attacked and have the probability of having your head bashed in by someone then you have the right to defend yourself from serious bodily harm/death, by whatever means.
    BUT, if its not an attack, such as a drunk merely grabbing you in a bar over a misunderstanding (your example) then throat punching him is most likely not warranted. I hope I've made my point/difference clear this time, sorry.

    Maybe I didn't make my post clear. I'll repost it here
    Every threat is different, and the appropriate response should be used in each situation (ie: don't shoot someone because they merely push you).
    or as you used as an example: ripping out someone's throat, etc etc etc

    I understand all about the concept of you fight how you train, but that wasn't what I was referring to being said in your post.

    I agree that one should not learn one move, one method of defense, etc, but that wasn't what I was referring to either.

    The way I read your post is that people should not resort to throat punching someone if they're attacked, and I cannot agree with that. If someone is attacking a person, that person should do whatever, including chops to the throat, eye gouges, kicking knees in, whatever it takes to end the attack.
    Counter their force with higher force, not equal force as you state. Thats a good way to die. One should not worry about our litigious society as you stated when they are being attacked, not worry about staying on the same playing level as the attacker, but supercede them and their force/action to end the fight/attack. Otherwise a person will be behind the curve and that is no way to defend yourself.

    I understand what others are saying, that you shouldn't rely on just pressure points, or just a palm thrust, or just your gun, or just OC. We as LEO have levels of force to use, and know when to use the appropriate tool. Joe Blow on the street confronted by someone that wants to bash his head in, should take whatever action necessary to end this encounter...IF it is a true threat. Joe Blow should have different tools to use...OC, joint manipulation techniques, quick strikes, knife, handgun, etc...use the appropriate tool for the situation. But if it comes down to you keeping your face in one piece or being knocked unconscious....then rules just went out the window...worrying about getting sued just went out the window.
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  13. #27
    Senior Member Array mercop's Avatar
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    Attacking sight, base and air are the fastest way to end fight. Combat failure with redundancy and keep going until it is over.- George

  14. #28
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    When i find myself in a hand to hand engagement, I almost always go for the same strikes as they work on everyone even the freaks of nature that aren't affected by pressure points( yes they do exist ). A hard strike to the brachial cluster will incapacitate an opponent almost immediatly, however if the blow isnt dead on it will just hurt badly. Next stop is a blow to the jugular folled by a downward collarbone strike. Usually this is where the fight ends, but if you haven't finished it by then, straight kicks to the knees will slow the opponent down well enough to get away ( because if he's hardcore enough to take the punishment you have already delivered you might want to get out of there).

  15. #29
    Senior Member Array Frogbones's Avatar
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    I've found in my training and going to clubs. That in a fight, it's a dance...a flow of energy.

    Different moves with the different beats. Some music encourages smooth sweeping moves and paterns, some music encourges hard, fast, sharp and swift moves.

    Just depends on your opponents skills, determination, it which set the beats in which you act out.

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