Lahner Tactical Training - Extreme CQC (0-5 meters)

Lahner Tactical Training - Extreme CQC (0-5 meters)

This is a discussion on Lahner Tactical Training - Extreme CQC (0-5 meters) within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Some pretty good techniques here using knife, baton and pistols. YouTube - Tactical Training, extreme close quarter shooting, tactical Knife...

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Thread: Lahner Tactical Training - Extreme CQC (0-5 meters)

  1. #1
    Member Array heylin's Avatar
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    Lahner Tactical Training - Extreme CQC (0-5 meters)

    Some pretty good techniques here using knife, baton and pistols.

    YouTube - Tactical Training, extreme close quarter shooting, tactical Knife
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  2. #2
    Member Array ISR MATRIX's Avatar
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    What about it do you like? I am curious.
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    Member Array Cruel Hand Luke's Avatar
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    Everything works at 25% resistance. Most things work at 50% resisitance. Some things work against 75% resistance. Very little REALLY works well against 100% resistance. Some of those disarms and knife defenses just flat out will get you seriously injured or killed trying to make that work against someone who is REALLY TRYING to hurt you.

    How much forward drive and real intent were the "badguys" really applying to the victim in those clips? 25 at BEST?
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    Member Array ISR MATRIX's Avatar
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    I would tend to agree, except I would argue that there was more like "zero", but I would like someone who likes the material to explain why...

    In our organization, we filter everything through several phases of progressive resistance as part of our own quality control process. Many martial arts people see these situations as ways to showcase their "art" in a way that stretches the form to fit the function. It doesn't generally work that way unless the susbject/ attacker is simply not a credible threat, in which case... you might be able to pull off your move... but with so much at risk, why would you play so recklessly... if not simply for the sake of style?

    As we say in our courses... "You are not a Rodeo Clown and you don't get Stuntman pay for doing things more dangerously", so don't train yourself to do dumb things.
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    Senior Member Array psychophipps's Avatar
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    Well, it's good to see that there are suckers in Europe as well...

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    Member Array Britbiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psychophipps View Post
    Well, it's good to see that there are suckers in Europe as well...
    I think you will find that New Zealand is not in Europe......

    Ohh....I do like the music, and the artful play fighting. The man has fast hands for sure. Good entertainment.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Array psychophipps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Britbiker View Post
    I think you will find that New Zealand is not in Europe......

    Ohh....I do like the music, and the artful play fighting. The man has fast hands for sure. Good entertainment.
    Excellent observation. However, the Kiwi cops don't typically spell "Police" as "Polizei", start off their videos with German text like "Ein Sytem - Alle Waffen", or end their domain names in ".eu".

    Just sayin'...

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    Member Array Britbiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psychophipps View Post
    Excellent observation. However, the Kiwi cops don't typically spell "Police" as "Polizei", start off their videos with German text like "Ein Sytem - Alle Waffen", or end their domain names in ".eu".

    Just sayin'...
    Touché Sir....and agreed. I was refering to the OP location, not the video.

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    New Member Array modernninja's Avatar
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    As an MEB advanced baton instructor, I do see a few legitimate maneuvers in there, such as the basic armbar he applies towards the beginning of the video. Some of the joint locks with the baton are valid as well, but not legal to use in a defensive situation to my knowledge (then again, if you have enough time to study those maneuvers, you know enough to crack the individual in the shins and forearms until they stop attacking anyway). They are not part of the MEB training curriculum, and to be honest, with the proximity to the throat in some, could be considered choking maneuvers, which are definitely red zone behavior. I'm sure the legislation in Germany is somewhat different in regards to the continuum of force authorized by police units, and so it's quite possible that some if not all of those maneuvers fall within the "safer" side of the law in those parts, but in the US, you'd definitely be raising a few legal eyebrows with some of the maneuvers we see.

    I think that the defensive mindset has a lot to do with our perception of the effectiveness of these techniques, as I'm sure the US is one of the few countries that enforces a policy of only allowing an officer/citizen to defend themselves with the intent to stop to the attack, as opposed to responding directly with lethal force "no questions asked" style. These techniques, to my thinking, would simply not mesh with this mindset, and as such, would not place the officer/citizen in an effective enough position to adequately employ them, even if they were effective against a full-force attacker at 0-5 meters. We also don't tend to train our officers to shoot at any range without protective equipment, such as eyewear, and especially not within that 0-5 meter range, where we could suffer eye injuries as a result of material kickback from impacts (thank you OSHA and Mothers of America for ruining all of our fun). Realistically, I do think that some of these techniques, if perfected, might save some lives in some extreme situations, but the trade-off is an unacceptable risk of damage during training.

    Would I ever be able to use these techniques outside of a training environment? At 6'2" 265lbs, unless I'm facing a sumo wrestler or a bonafide martial arts expert, there isn't a court in the land that wouldn't hit me up for excessive force. Still fun to watch though...

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