Instructor Needs Ideas For a Specialized Case....

This is a discussion on Instructor Needs Ideas For a Specialized Case.... within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Okay I've got 20 years experience as a certified firearms instructor but I've never run into a case like this. An old friend of mine ...

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Thread: Instructor Needs Ideas For a Specialized Case....

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Exclamation Instructor Needs Ideas For a Specialized Case....

    Okay I've got 20 years experience as a certified firearms instructor but I've never run into a case like this.

    An old friend of mine wants his permit. I met this guy went he first went to work after graduating from college, his first "real" job so to speak. He was great and very successful. He was happy go lucky and good at his job. I moved on elsewhere. You know how things go.

    I heard later he got married and had kids. Then I heard he'd contracted some rare and terrible disease. Attacked his nervous system and semi paralyzed him. Put him in a wheelchair of the electric type. Stayed in his same line of work and I met up with him recently. We spoke some, caught up on old times.

    I saw him again the following week and he asked me why I was wearing a photographers vest. There was a line to speak to him and I told him I'd send him an e-mail to explain. So I sent him the SHEEPDOG essay and explained there was rarely a time (excepting at MY job as a teacher) when I was not armed. Even at church. You see when we first met, he was new associate pastor and head of the youth ministry.

    Now he's a senior pastor with his own church. I told him I'd be coming into church armed. He was very agreeable, but he wanted to alert the elders, whom he felt would be very supportive. The next Sunday his sermon was very pro gun and pro self defense and pro military. He also understands EXACTLY who the enemy is and the extent to which things will be done that seek our destruction. This is a good guy.

    He's got a strong side and a weak side, literally. He's right handed and his right side is pretty mobile. His left is pretty useless and therein lies my problem. Most firearms require two hands to operate well in some of the functions. I'm thinking he might be able to manipulate a revolver well. Guy has a handshake like a steel worker.

    He preaches standing up. Locks the wheelchair in position and he grabs the fixed podium to simply stand and lock his knees. Stays that way for an hour.

    I sent him the video of the Taurus revolver known as THE JUDGE and he liked it but was uncertain if he could handle it. Recoil won't be an issue. I'm only worried about reloads. That's the issue I want suggestions for. I've never taught the handicapped and I don't really consider him handicapped since he wants to learn and I know that given enough skull sweat we can figure a way around this.

    I think a semi auto is out of the question. Consider the issue of loading mags and then of clearing a stoppage. I think those are actions requiring two fully operational hands. He says his left hand is almost useless. I don't know to what extent ALMOST useless is... what percentage. If it's say 80% that might be enough to cradle a revolver for a reload.

    SO! Thoughts?
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    I wouldn't be too quick to discount a semi-auto. It's certainly possible to manipulate an SA gun one handed (and everyone should know how to do so). The fact that your friend is in a wheelchair actually offers some interesting possibilities for one handed operation, providing lots of surfaces to hook the rear sights on to work the slide and his lap to lay the pistol down in upside down while he shoves a new magazine in. His reloads certainly won't be as quick as someone with the use of both hands, but they wouldn't be with a revolver either. I think he might be better served by a higher capacity before he has to reload than he would be by a revolver.

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    Distinguished Member Array Rugergirl's Avatar
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    First, congrats to your friend for not letting his limitations stop him from being safe! He may not be physically as strong as many others buit he seems like he has a strong will.
    I will second the idea of a revolver, much easier IMHO opinion to use one handed. I'm thinking a speed strip for reloads will be much easier and faster for him than the round speedloaders. If he has enough hand strength to just grasp the end of it he should be able to reload easily just manipulating the cylinder with the other hand.
    If there is a will there is a way, he sounds like the kind of guy who will find a way to manage just fine.
    Disclaimer: The posts made by this member are only the members opinion, not a reflection on anyone else, nor the group, and should not be cause for anyone to get their undergarments wedged in an uncomfortable position.

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    Maybe....

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackeagle View Post
    The fact that your friend is in a wheelchair actually offers some interesting possibilities for one handed operation, providing lots of surfaces to hook the rear sights on to work the slide and his lap to lay the pistol down in upside down while he shoves a new magazine in.
    I actually considered this. Been wondering if it might be possible to affix a holster (probably KYDEX) either cross draw or strong side just inside the armrests. There is still a considerable problem in reloading the mags themselves.

    Considering using the sights to snag the slide to the rear to chamber a round is fine for a crisis and we should all know how to do so for such an emergency but I think it's unrealistic and extremely dangerous for practice in a range setting.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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    Senior Member Array ICTsnub's Avatar
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    Multiple weapons.
    I'm not a lawyer or a LEO, just a pantload with a computer.

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    Senior Member Array KenInColo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICTsnub View Post
    Multiple weapons.
    An armed populace are called citizens.
    An unarmed populace are called subjects.

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    Senior Member Array MR D's Avatar
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    Gee SOS - -

    You aren't asking for much, we used to train for one handed reloads both revolver and semi-auto

    I just tried it with my .357 still works (I prefer S&W or clones for this as the cylinder release pushes forward- I also prefer a 4 inch barrel for stability, my Rossi only has a 2 inch tube but it works)

    gun and reloads on strong side

    from a firing grip tilt the revolver back thumb the release forward and flip the cylinder open (some require just a wrist action - some you can actually squeeze the grip and use the index (and or the middle) finger to push the cylinder open, if he can use his left as a club the heel of his left hand depresses the plunger as he tilts the revolver barrel up to get empties out...

    then use left arm to hold revolver to body - access speed loader with right hand and line up with chambers and depress or rotate to drop rounds in. Close cylinder and he's back in business
    (Alternatively - we used to reverse the gun- grip forward with the barrel jammed in a belt with the cylinder open to reload)

    Had similar methods with semi-autos too specifically colt 1911s - P14-45 would sure save on reloading...

    need to take him to a range and find out what his left hand capacity is - has he lost use of that side or just fine motor skills?

    wish you both luck with this
    Last edited by MR D; April 18th, 2009 at 10:04 PM. Reason: spelling

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    I also have to go with multiple guns. Good reliable guns with high capacity magazines under the principle of a NY reload. Primary gun on and about the wheelchair and Secondary weapon could be placed in a cross draw holster.

    Check this article and see if it helps any:
    http://www.personaldefensesolutions....airArticle.pdf
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
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  10. #9
    VIP Member Array First Sgt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackeagle View Post
    I wouldn't be too quick to discount a semi-auto. It's certainly possible to manipulate an SA gun one handed (and everyone should know how to do so). The fact that your friend is in a wheelchair actually offers some interesting possibilities for one handed operation, providing lots of surfaces to hook the rear sights on to work the slide and his lap to lay the pistol down in upside down while he shoves a new magazine in. His reloads certainly won't be as quick as someone with the use of both hands, but they wouldn't be with a revolver either. I think he might be better served by a higher capacity before he has to reload than he would be by a revolver.
    +1 w/Blackeagle. With a little practice, he would be able to rack a semi-auto with no problems. Place spare mag holder at 10 or 11 o'clock on belt. To change mag, eject, place weapon upside between legs, reach over, grab mag, insert, TAP, RACK, BANG! Malfunctions, hard tap on thigh, rack, bang or change mags following above procedures. Advantage, number of rounds...10 vs 5. Ability to change mag in half time it would take to do two speed loads with a revolver..I would be willing to bet that his determination in training would have him MORE than proficient in a short period of time. JMHO
    Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.

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    Wink $$$$$$

    Quote Originally Posted by Miggy View Post
    I also have to go with multiple guns. Good reliable guns with high capacity magazines under the principle of a NY reload. Primary gun on and about the wheelchair and Secondary weapon could be placed in a cross draw holster.
    Geeez he's a man of God not a man of GoLd !! He doesn't get paid much but I'll ask if the elders might think this would be necessary church equipment. I told him he was the Shepherd (representing THE SHEPHERD) and I was his sheepdog but I can see how he ought to be able to drive off the wolf himself.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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    Member Array ColoradoDave's Avatar
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    Some good thoughts, but I'd say sit down with him in private and have him get hands on with an auto and a revolver and see what his abilities are. Then go from there.
    NRA Life Member.
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    Exclamation +1!

    Quote Originally Posted by ColoradoDave View Post
    Some good thoughts, but I'd say sit down with him in private and have him get hands on with an auto and a revolver and see what his abilities are. Then go from there.
    That's absolutely my next step. In fact I sent him a link to this thread so he can get some good ideas as to what I'm thinking.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Here's a little tip for those one handed Autoloader reloads.

    Put a piece of skateboard tape behind the ejection port and in front of the Rear Sight. On my Glock, which has a nice, huge honkin' flat top surface the skateboard tape grips my jeans and I reload by running the gun down my leg.

    It's fast, quick and easy. Try it with Snap Caps and see what you think. If you do it right, I'll bet you love it. It replaces the old"catch the rear sight on your belt" reload trick.

    I find the skateboard tape method works best with handguns like Glock, as they have that large flat surface area. Good luck and if you think I can be of any help feel free to PM me.

    Biker

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    Biker RN: That sounds like an awesome solution. Of all the autoloaders, I was going to recommend a Glock 17 or 19 to him and this might be a very good solution. It's got the sight radius needed for good accuracy and the capacity to handle most any size job. The reload just emphasizes that.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    I've gone through a few similar cases and first off, check out G-Code holsters, they have a holster (kydex) system that allows you to mount a base on multiple surfaces and the holster part is a quick disconnect / connect that is just great for car, wheelchair, bed, etc. You can mount multiple bases and then just carry the gun in the holster and snap in where ever you are. This is great since you never have to un-holster your firearm to change locations.

    Second, once you get a range day with your friend and decide on what avenue to follow firearms wise, you may want to discuss the carrying of a good pepper spray like Fox Labs. This could offer the added time for malfunction clearances as well as reloads if he could deploy the spray first.

    Last, a "U" shaped channel of aluminum with sheet rubber inside that is bent to the right dimensions will allow for slide manipulation as well as a good clearance device if mounted vertical on the front inside of the wheelchair arm rest. The bonus is that if painted the same color as the chair, it disappears to curious eyes.

    Good luck!

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