questionable grip from an IWB holster

This is a discussion on questionable grip from an IWB holster within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hello, I just received a new IWB holster from Little Bear Custom holsters for my M&P 45 compact. Great holster for a great gun but ...

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Thread: questionable grip from an IWB holster

  1. #1
    Member Array FullEffect1911's Avatar
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    questionable grip from an IWB holster

    Hello,

    I just received a new IWB holster from Little Bear Custom holsters for my M&P 45 compact. Great holster for a great gun but I noticed something during draw practice.

    The holster rides low and tight (just like I requested), while going to draw I found that attempting to get a full "shooting" grip is near impossible. The sweat shield and my own self gets in the way. If I loosen my belt, the gun rides further away from me and I can get a full grip, however this won't work for me for concealed carry because I will have to keep pulling up my pants. I am right handed and carry at 3:00-3:30.

    I did discover a technique that is repeatable, quick and gets me a good high hold when I extend but is technically "wrong". My index finger is indexed along the frame, with the rest of my fingers on the grip normal and my thumb rests over the rear sight (almost like it was going to try and cock a hammer). Upon drawing my thumb naturally rolls off the rear sight and goes right to where I usually place it in preparation for shooting.

    It seems to work well for me, but I know it isn't exactly proper technique. Should I not practice this way and try and just wedge my thumb in there for a "normal" grip? Or is this a case of if it works use it?

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  3. #2
    Distinguished Member Array Tally XD's Avatar
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    I wear my IWB as a high and tight. When I draw my grip is exactly what my normal shooting grip is.

    I think your issue is simply part of choosing low ride and tight to body. High ride allows the gun to move away from the body enough to get a thumb around the grip.
    I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry.
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  4. #3
    Member Array FullEffect1911's Avatar
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    If I choose a holster that was much higher I think I would have had a problem. The gun is a compact and if the holster rode any higher the barrel area would have been near the middle of my belt. This would have caused the rig to feel like it's constantly pulling away from me. On top of this I have pretty large hands and that grip is pretty small.

    The draws seems to work well for me, but is it usually considered okay to buck convention to do what works for the individual?

  5. #4
    Distinguished Member Array Tally XD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FullEffect1911 View Post
    If I choose a holster that was much higher I think I would have had a problem. The gun is a compact and if the holster rode any higher the barrel area would have been near the middle of my belt. This would have caused the rig to feel like it's constantly pulling away from me. On top of this I have pretty large hands and that grip is pretty small.

    The draws seems to work well for me, but is it usually considered okay to buck convention to do what works for the individual?
    Doing what works for you is exactly what you should do. I just took your post as asking a question about it. A good high ride holster will put the middle of the barrel in the center line of the belt. However, for whatever reason of physics, it doesn't feel like the gun tends to lean away from the body.
    I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry.
    - Barack Obama Chicago Tribune, April 27, 2004

  6. #5
    Senior Member Array The Fish's Avatar
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    I don't know the exact design of your holster but with mine (Comp-Tac MTAC) I cut away a bit of the leather backing to allow my thumb to get directly between my skin and the rear end of the slide or just below it on the top of the frame.
    The piece I removed (if it helps)was shaped a bit like Idaho.
    Also,there is always a compromise between concealment and ease of draw.
    " Keep On Packin' On The Bimah"

  7. #6
    Senior Member Array Knuckledrager's Avatar
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    You may need to adjust your draw stroke to attain your master grip. IWB holsters can be a bit slower than an OWB because you have to dig your hand in a bit more to get that master grip. I would suggest that you practice getting that grip before actually clearing the holster. With time and practice your draw will get better and you will regain that master grip and press accurately to the target.
    "The liberty of the individual is no gift of civilization. It was greatest before there was any civilization." Sigmund Freud

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    Ex Member Array ProShooter's Avatar
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    The key to an IWB is the thumb.

    You need to hook the grip with your thumb and realize that because the gun rides low in the holster, your normal finger placement may be off. Learning how to accurately fire the pistol with your fingers "off slightly" is important.

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    I'll play Devils Advocate.

    I would never adapt my draw to a holster that was just not "working out" for the sole reason being that I paid good, honest, money for it and I really, really, want the holster to "work" but unfortunately it doesn't.

    If it just ain't workin' out then it ain't workin' out...either ditch the holster or modify the holster but, don't play manipulative funny games with getting the fastest possible proper and solid grip on your firearm because you WILL fumble it if the Shirt ever hits the fan.

    It is SO incredibly important to just be able to get a good, solid, complete, natural grip on the firearm as part of the flow of drawing and presenting the firearm.

    Also: Ask yourself if you honestly need to carry that deep...and never any deeper.

    You should only ever carry as deep as is absolutely necessary for your mode of dress, lifestyle, job, or even a particular special event.

    That having been said...if the sweat shield is hampering a proper draw and presentation then take a utility knife and surgically remove it - then keep a light coat of paste wax on your firearm...a product like Renaissance Wax and sweat on your firearm.
    That is better than goofing up your draw methodology.

    Personally I think that any holster that does not allow the good guy to get a solid, practiced, grip on his firearm and get it out and presented to the threat in 1.5 ~ 2 seconds or so is basically useless unless you must absolutely carry deeper than that due to highly unfortunate situational necessity.

    Just my humble personal opinion on this.

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    Member Array FullEffect1911's Avatar
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    That having been said...if the sweat shield is hampering a proper draw and presentation then take a utility knife and surgically remove it - then keep a light coat of paste wax on your firearm...a product like Renaissance Wax and sweat on your firearm.
    That is better than goofing up your draw methodology.

    Personally I think that any holster that does not allow the good guy to get a solid, practiced, grip on his firearm and get it out and presented to the threat in 1.5 ~ 2 seconds or so is basically useless unless you must absolutely carry deeper than that due to highly unfortunate situational necessity.

    Just my humble personal opinion on this.
    And a good opinion at that.

    I have been discussing this topic also on THR. And I have come to the conclusion that if I just move the holster back to about 4:00 I can get a good full grip on the gun and draw in about the 1.5-2.0 second range (estimated).

    I also considered cutting back the sweat shield, but now that I moved the holster a bit back it doesn't seem necessary.

    Thanks for the opinions guys, it really did help me reach a conclusion.

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    Happy that you managed to get it worked out.
    We want our forum members to be the good guys that win the fight and get to go home.

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    Distinguished Member Array JerryM's Avatar
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    Good that it is not necessary to cut the shield. I have an OWB for a G26 that I had to cut the sweat shield. The griip of the G 26 is short, and I could not get a full grip.

    I ended up having a friend who does some leather work cut it down. It works fine now.

    Regards,
    Jerry

  13. #12
    Member Array ToddG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    I would never adapt my draw to a holster that was just not "working out"
    Absolutely agreed. If a holster doesn't work for me, it doesn't work. There are far too many suitable holsters on the market to wrestle with (or compromise for) just one.

    Many holster makers are too concerned about sweat guards and not nearly concerned enough about getting a firing grip on a pistol while it's still in the holster. If you've ever worked with holster company to develop one, especially an IWB, you know this can take some serious work to get everyone on the right page.

    Drawing your pistol before you have a full grip on it not only slows your draw and increases the odds you'll fire a poor shot, but it also makes the gun much less secure if you need to fire in any situation that might involve getting jostled or bumped. This could include drawing while in a moving vehicle, drawing in a crowd, drawing in a point-blank contact situation, etc.
    Train Hard, Stay Safe!
    Todd Louis Green
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