2 Day Handgun Course w/ Wife - Report! (long)

This is a discussion on 2 Day Handgun Course w/ Wife - Report! (long) within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Here’s the 2 day defensive handgun class @ Frontsight report. Day 1: We stayed in Vegas so we had a 45 minute drive to Frontsight. ...

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Thread: 2 Day Handgun Course w/ Wife - Report! (long)

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    Senior Member Array hayzor's Avatar
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    2 Day Handgun Course w/ Wife - Report! (long)

    Here’s the 2 day defensive handgun class @ Frontsight report.

    Day 1: We stayed in Vegas so we had a 45 minute drive to Frontsight. It is in the middle on nowhere. Got there a little later than I wanted. Arrived @ 7:45 am and checked in. They did a weapons check and we got our belts / holsters etc on. They had my wife’s rental XD9 waiting there, only problem, they had a left hand holster for her. They sent her around the corner to the pro shop and got her hooked up quickly. 8:00 am start in the main building for orientation – about 300-400 people in there (Most w/ pistols on their hips, unloaded). All classes met there, the majority were for handgun courses (2 or 4 day). They went over dry practice rules and an intro to Frontsight. We were at the ranges @ about 9:30 am. 31 people @ our range. 1 RO and 2 additional instructors. A lot of impressive credentials for the RO’s. Started w/ basic safety (4 rules) then to grip, sight alignment, some dry fire, then live fire. The first time the instructors actually pulled the trigger – for a surprise break. It seemed to start a little slow for my tastes (because I know so much, or think I do), but was good to see the basics of sight picture, alignment & trigger control. My wife really liked it.
    We then teamed up w/ one other student and stood directly behind them as coach whenever they were on the line. Mainly for safety, to make sure the muzzle doesn’t go wide. Also was good to have the coach remind of finger on/off trigger, positioning, stance, reholstering, etc.
    Had another lecture that afternoon on when to shoot/liability. Lectures were excellent. Much better than my CCW instructors, who were both lawyers. The Frontsight lecturer was a retired cop, and brought great experiences and insight to the topic. My wife really liked the lectures. It really drives home the question - are you willing / ready to shoot someone, and why you don’t fire warning shots, shoot to wound etc (questions my wife has asked).
    More range time, and then final lecture of day 1 - color code of mental awareness.
    Left at about 6:30 – 7:00 back to Vegas grabbed some dinner on the way and back to hotel to rest. Watched TV and I did some dry practice. The wife not interested in dry practice that night.
    Day 2: We got there @ 7:45 and went straight to range. Reviewed a few things and worked on draw from holster (learned on day 1) and firing controlled pairs to COM. Paired up w/ coaching partners. I didn’t coach w/ my wife – they recommended against that.
    Worked on clearing type 1, 2 & 3 malfunctions. First we induced / simulated the malfunctions, ie. putting a round sideways in the chamber/ slide area to simulate a failure to eject. These were interesting to me and open my eyes a bit, good info on clearing them. I need to practice these more to get some muscle memory. My wife got a little frustrated w/ these, because of the strength required to pull the slide back, and hold it while placing a sideways round in. The instructors helped her out and she did pretty well.
    They taught us head shots, and when it is necessary to use them. We practiced on rotating targets. Target appears – COM controlled pair, target disappears (rotates) - if it came back (failure to stop) then we made a headshot (cranio-ocular cavity). The targets had it outlined from the outside of either eye, to moustache to eyebrow. Took a little bit of concentration to hit, but consistently doable if you followed the basics of sight alignment, sight picture and trigger control. We had another shoot / no shoot and civil/criminal liability lecture. Again excellent.
    About halfway thru day 2 we transitioned to a hot range. My wife got a little nervous, but as the instructors pointed out, no guns had jumped out of their holsters in the previous day & a half. We ended the day going to the shoothouse. We were in a room and some badguys and a goodguy targets popped into view and we had to stop them, one of them a headshot. My wife shot all the bad guys and the neighbor – but it was with 2 solid COM shots. I didn’t shoot the neighbor and made pretty decent shots on the BG’s. Gets you thinking about the importance of training, identifying targets, stress etc. We got our certificates of completion and headed back to Vegas. My wife was one of 3 ladies in our class of 31. About 10% - which seemed maybe a little low for the percentage I saw @ Frontsight overall. There is probably 15% women. I think several of the men in our class were jealous of me for 2 reasons. 1- my wife is a awesome , 2 – I talked to several guys that would have liked their wives or SO’s be there, but they were not interested in the whole gun thing. I will say that it would have been good either with or w/o my wife, but it was extra great to have her there and for her to enjoy it so much.
    My summary – Excellent gun handling and safety habits being taught and engrained, as well as a shooting platform that provides safety, consistency, accuracy & speed in a self defense situation. I definitely need to dry practice a bunch more to build the muscle memory of all the techniques. I’m going to shoot a steel match this thurs w/ some friends – I should have improved since last one. I would have liked the 4 day course – however, the 4 day course probably would have been too much for my bride.

    Day 3: We went to “The Biggest Tattoo show on Earth”, a tattoo convention at the Mandalay Bay. My wife really likes tattoos. Certainly plenty of tattoos. You know you are in a tattoo friendly environment when a couple of 300+ lb guys in their mid 50’s are sporting thongs to show off their full body tattoos in the “best overall” tattoo competition. A lot of people getting tattoos – one guy getting one on his head – he was in a lot of pain. It was a lot of fun and some great people watching.

    Overall a great weekend – we both went to something that we really enjoyed, and had a great time together. Highly recommend to one and all.

    I’ll let my wife sum it up with a couple of comments to her mom when we got home and picked up the kids.
    After we had talked about Frontsight and the weekend for a few minutes.
    Wife: It (Frontsight) is something that everybody should got to.
    MIL: You mean everybody that has a gun.
    Wife: No, everybody – whether they have a gun or not.

    Let me know if you have specific questions about the training and I’ll try to answer them.

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    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Sounds like you all had an excellent time, gained some excellent training, and all for a good price. That's awesome. If I was the jealous type, I'd say "I'm jealous". But I can say I envy you both on this ordeal. Some day me and mine will do the same.

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    VIP Member Array Patti's Avatar
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    Good info.

    I'm thinking about taking a class at Front Sight in January.
    Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy. — Winston Churchill

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    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    Good to see that you had a good time. I'm going in two weeks for the 4 day course...
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

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    Member Array Shotdown's Avatar
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    I need to take my ass back for the practical rifle course. I just have to find the time.

    G19, G23, P2000 (9mm), LMT Defender 2000 (SOPMOD), Colt LE6920, Ruger 10/22

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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Thank you for taking the time to post that review.

    Given that most of what I've heard about Frontsight has been negative, you have given me pause for reconsideration. If you've taken other courses, how would you compare the training at Frontsight to Thunder Ranch, Gunsight or LFI?

    Biker

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    Senior Member Array hayzor's Avatar
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    I have not taken any other training, so I can’t compare to another facility.

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    Glad you and your wife enjoyed it and good job on the report. I was there for the 4-day course with my wife at the same time. I looked for your name (everyone has their name taped to their front and back so the instructors can get your attention quickly if needed) but did not see you in the classes. We were sitting in the second row just to the left of the speaker for the classes.

    We took 2 of our anti-gun liberal friends with us on certificates we received when we became lifetime members. I am not sure how we talked them into it but they did really well and I think it opened their eyes a little bit. I'm not saying they were converted completely but there were some in roads made.
    NRA Life Member

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    Member Array akhimark's Avatar
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    I was OK with everything up to the 300 pound dude with the banana hammock

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    Member Array Steve Austin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    Thank you for taking the time to post that review.

    Given that most of what I've heard about Frontsight has been negative, you have given me pause for reconsideration. If you've taken other courses, how would you compare the training at Frontsight to Thunder Ranch, Gunsight or LFI?

    Biker
    Sorry, Biker, but most of the negative crap you are reading about Front Sight is from people who have NEVER been there. All they comment on is this litigation, or that court appointed clown, and what a "used car salesman" pitch Piazza gives. Typical 'net ranger B.S. Nothing in their rants is about the training recieved at the Front Sight facility. I'll give them the salesman pitch and it drives me nuts. Get past it and attend a course. You may not join as a lifetime member, but I think you WILL be impressed with what you learn and just how much you didn't know.
    I took advantage of the "gun and gear" 5 day package for $1199 for both myself and wife last November. I ended up joining at a mid level membership and it wasnt because of any high pressure tactics. I wanted to be part of Front Sight and it wasn't because of the salesman-I want the training and the opportunity to meet 300 to 500 new likeminded friends from all walks of life each and every time I (we) travel to Vegas from Central Florida for courses. So far we have met a Cancer Dr. from Idaho, part of a Colorado church security group, an Arizona Ranger, a Delta pilot, wife & 2 daughters, and just so many more fantastic people. We were also out again for 4 day pistol courses the last week in Sept. I cant wait to go back for the 4 day Tactical Shotgun course as my wife bought me a new Benelli for my birthday this year! Try a course, any course: I think you will be impressed.
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    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    Thanks for the report. How did you facilitate getting 800 rnds to the facility? - buy there, ship in, buy in Vegas, etc?

    Anyone have tips for someone who has to fly to attend training.

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    Senior Member Array tbrenke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akhimark View Post
    I was OK with everything up to the 300 pound dude with the banana hammock
    I hear ya. that was the gag part for me. not something I would voluntarily see. the nightmares would last way too long.
    "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution, which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." -1792, James Madison
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    Smile

    I have done the 4 day course with the one day CCW and cannot talk enough about the training. It is excellent. However, the good Dr. is way out there and just before 9-1 promoted a gov't conspiracy film that was foreign made. I could not believe that while we are fighting like never before for our gun rights with the occupant of 1600 PA Avenue that he would espouse this crap. I will not spend any more money with them until he is removed. There is too much controversy surrounding him. But that is my decision.

    Again, the training is top notch!!!

    Armydad

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    I've heard nothing but good things about FrontSite...thanks for sharing!

    Taking a course with the 'boss' is fantastic...the family that shoots together, stays together. (Who would dare try to leave?)
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    Member Array Steve Austin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nedrgr21 View Post
    Thanks for the report. How did you facilitate getting 800 rnds to the facility? - buy there, ship in, buy in Vegas, etc?

    Anyone have tips for someone who has to fly to attend training.
    nedrgr21,
    Just our experiences; Our 1st visit to F.S. (Nov '08)we purchased ammo (1900 rds for 4 day handgun plus one day concealed carry class) thru Natchez Shooters Supply in Chatanooga TN and had it shipped to a mail forwarding co in Vegas. When we picked up our rental car we made a stop and picked it up (take your GPS) on the way to our hotel in Pahrump.
    2nd trip out(Sept '09), ammo was way more expensive so we purchased locally and researched our airline a little better. Southwest has a 2 bag per person checked bagage limit without extra fees, but doesn't care how much ammo (in the factory boxes) you have in them as long as the bags aren't over the 50 lb weight limit per bag. Most of the other carriers are charging per bag, and have about an 11 lb limit on ammo, Oh, and they charge for ALL your bags. We were skeptical of Southwest, so we made many calls to verify that they didnt care how much ammo was in the bag. All calls were answered the same- dont care how much ammo, just keep the bag under 50 lbs. Trust me, the TSA WILL open your bags and check your ammo, so dont put a lock on your bags that they cant open. Ours were checked both ways, even my dummy rounds I use for malfunction drills.
    As for tips, lots of sunscreen, lots of rest-you'll need it. Get some good bandaids or medical tape for your finger under the trigger guard-it'll be sore after 400 rounds and at that point you're only half way there. Get a good belt holster (possibly a drop-and-offset for the ladies) I love my Blade Tech's. Ammo has been almost non-existent for handguns in the Pahrump Wally World so dont depend on them for ammo, Front Sight's ammo is quite expensive-as is most ammo purchased at the range. If you can befriend a "Diamond Member" out there, they can get a 40% discount.
    Our first trip out we didn't shoot all 1900 rds, and ended up shipping quite a bit back-wife didn't shoot all she should have-technical difficulties. But I didn't shoot all 900 either.
    2nd time out we took the same 4 day defensive handgun course and only took 700 rds apiece-this time the wife was sick when we went out and she missed the last day-she shot a lot better, but it is, some might say, a grueling course. I thought I was going to run out(we were shooting different calibers this time) but I did scrape by and didnt have to buy extra, although I had an ample reserve in a family we met there on our range who told us not to worry about it, that they would help me out! All 4 of them (husband, wife & 2 daughters) were shooting .40 same as me, and had all kinds of ammo to ship back home.
    Take a look here Front Sight Firearms Training Institute there is a lot of information that might help you out. Dont forget to Declare your Fireams @ the check in counter. And not even an empty shell casing in the pocket of some dusty tactical trousers in your bags, they will yank you from your filght! Info from the Front Sight managment. Get ready to meet some really nice people and learn a lot.
    Hope this helps!!

    Stay in Pahrump if you can, it doesnt have the atmosphere of Las Vegas but saving that extra 25 min each way to dinner and your bed is worth while, for us anyway. The days are long, hot, cold, windy, sand-stormy-just like real conditions, and they dont charge extra to keep you out in it!!
    Last edited by Steve Austin; October 25th, 2009 at 04:43 PM. Reason: additional info
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