What would you look for in a defensive class?
This is a discussion on What would you look for in a defensive class? within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Whoa! I took a Krav Maga class!
That which doesn't kill me, will make me stronger (I hope!!!)
That was the most killer workout I've ...
October 12th, 2009 08:19 PM
Whoa! I took a Krav Maga class!
That which doesn't kill me, will make me stronger (I hope!!!)
That was the most killer workout I've ever done in my life. I go to the gym regularly and there is no way that prepared me for KM.
The focus is strictly on SD. No rules. They do teach weapons as well as empty hand fof. I'm not sure if they train with airsoft. They have something like blue guns, but didn't see any airsofts. I hope they do that training too.
In one class, I believe I can defend myself better than I could before the class. I'm told that in 2-3 months I can take their fight class.
My little taste of fighting today, left me wanting to fall down and throw up. (2 minutes of "identify target" and kick or punch...in a 2 on 1 scenario. It was the longest 2 minutes of my life. I thought I was going to die. The KM motto is, "never quit", but I sure wanted to have the teacher tell me that my 30 seconds were good enough.)
Seems like a less strength based system would help round things out at a later date. But I'm not super strong, yet felt like I packed a good wallop with both my legs (no surprise there, my legs are strong) and my hands (wow, really?! Yes!)
If nothing else, I'm sure my fitness will go through the ceiling. I can probably quit my gym.
October 13th, 2009 12:12 AM
:D Phoebe, your experience sounds like mine! It IS a huge workout! I remember one drill where I would have to keep punching pads for 5 minutes, but they would loop a belt around my waist and tug me back from the pads. By the time the 5 minutes was up I was dripping with sweat. But it taught me to keep going!
Originally Posted by Phoebe
I am definitely not strong (upper body strength? ha!) but I have never had an issue with KM because of that... speed is another thing, not just strength, that it teaches... Speed can turn a little bit of mass into something nasty.
October 13th, 2009 12:25 PM
I feel like I was hit by a truck today.
Honestly, I thought I was in decent shape. Crap upper body strength, but I have been lifting weights regularly for 4 months to try to build that up.
The whole top of my body hurts! My obliques hurt.
From videos I've watched, I can see how KM fits in with pistols. Even if they don't train it, it's a no-brainer.
CC + KM = one "don't try to hurt me or you will badly regret it"
How long did you train for? I'm looking at making a one year commitment.
Did you do full contact fof?
October 13th, 2009 12:46 PM
Sounds like you have hit on one key ingredient required IMO for any course of study- enthusiasm.
Physical activity, grappling, fighting etc can definitely improve attitude. Its not something most people are comfortable with, and many people are simply overwhelmed when presented a physical threat. Good for you for following thru with your interest.
fwiw- Be careful of falling into the trap of "i brought a martial arts arsenal to a gunfight" syndrome.
I won't stop racing when I get old, I will get old when I stop racing
NRA Life, Master Mason, Jack-of-All-Trades (Master of None)
October 13th, 2009 02:12 PM
Can you elaborate on the "fight" class? Are they affiliated with the FIGHT system(Haganah)...or is this just basically their full contact/sparring session?
Originally Posted by Phoebe
"My God David, We're a Civilized society."
"Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
-The Mist (2007)
October 13th, 2009 07:33 PM
That's interesting! I've never heard of Haganah, but the principles sound identical to my currently limited understanding of Krav Maga.
Haganah and F.I.G.H.T. basic training principles are simple. Avoid,escape,demolish. If you can, escape an escalating situation. If you are attacked and cannot immediately escape, do not assume you can judge your attacker's ultimate intent. Therefore, demolish the attacker.
Students are drilled to create a mindset that reacts to a violent assault by immediately switching from a victim to a predatory aggressor.
Substitute Krav Maga for Haganah and FIGHT in the above quotes and this is my understanding of the principles behind KM.
Every touch is designed to create damage. Every tactic has both a defensive and offensive element. Techniques are overlapped to "short-circuit" and overwhelm the attacker. There are no rules of engagement. Every technique builds on instinctive responses. Strength doesn't matter.
Both also seem to be used by Special Forces in this country.
But I don't know if the actual techniques are similar or even related.
Per Wikipedia, Imi (founder of KM), taught his methods to the Haganah (Jewish underground army.) No clue if the techniques diverged. Maybe I can ask my teacher.
"Fight Class" is full-contact fighting with protective gear.
There's lots of reasons why I think this is a great thing to study.
1) great exercise!!!
2) no difference between men and women. In fact, they will put women in even a 10 on 1 situation at more advanced levels
3) focus is on real life and the training includes simulations of things like only having one-hand, or being blinded, or sleepy, etc.
4) the simulated stress of, even my first class, is closer to real life. It was a full on adrenalin dump. Much to my surprise, it isn't hard to put someone into a scenario where I felt like I really was fighting for my life. (I should say the end of my first class. The first portion was in learning some new skills. The last 2 minutes were about fighting like hell.)
Hope this wasn't more answer than you wanted! I'm just excited about new possibilities that seem open to me now. I always thought I was a wuss. Turns out...I'm not.
October 14th, 2009 03:38 PM
Yes! You will be quite sore. But it gets better. Also, when you start really punching things-- they wouldn't let us wear gloves, and I had to cut my nails, your knuckles might bleed, but they'll get tougher over time. My teachers wouldn't let me wear gloves or wrap my hands because they said I wouldn't have that out on the street, and that it's so difficult to get a punch done right without breaking your hand that I had to learn to do it without anything helping me.
Originally Posted by Phoebe
The first class I took (the one with the ex-Green Beret), we had a fight class directly after our KM class, and it was contact. And I trained for 6-8 months before I ended up getting very ill-- I had to drop a semester of school because I wound up in the hospital due to a virus.
This year I picked it up and I've been doing it for several months now. No fight class yet, but now that I've switched jobs and my evenings are open again, I'm going to be looking into it.
October 15th, 2009 07:53 AM
You might even contact your local range.
It is my understanding that our range has a class that aggressively teaches the basics of SD, that both male and female students can use. It is taught by a LEO instructor, who is one of the teachers of defensive tactics at the academy.
October 15th, 2009 09:41 AM
From the Tactical Wire
Skill Set: Preparing For Training - Part I
by Tiger McKee
Like any art, learning to fight with firearms requires studying under knowledgeable instructors and teachers, which takes time and money - precious commodities for most of us. To get the greatest return on your investment you need to focus on 3 areas - preparation for the class, participation during the class, and post-class follow through.
Preparation includes selecting your class, making travel plans, and acquiring the necessary equipment. Your anticipated use of your firearm and current abilities should dictate the class you attend. If you're interested in self-defense you don't want to attend a class on competitive shooting.
Choosing an instructor or school is important for both beginner and experienced student. For a new student the training should be a gratifying experience and get you started in the right direction. For the "gun-school-junky" the instruction should fit the fighting doctrine you already have developing. A great source of info on instructors and schools are firearm forums on the Internet and reviews in magazines.
After researching a school, contact them to talk about what you are looking for in instruction. When discussing your training be careful about overestimating your current abilities. The majority of defensive instruction is based on you knowing the fundamentals of marksmanship the basics of how your weapon functions. Without this knowledge you'll start out behind, quickly become frustrated, and won't benefit from the instruction.
Get detailed information on the registration process. Most schools require applications, copies of CCW permits and such, and partial or full payment. Please, send in all the required paperwork. Don't just shove a check into an envelope and mail it in, even if you have been to the same school 12 times before. After a week or so confirm your registration.
Now that you've booked your class it's time to make travel arrangements. Wait until the last minute to book flights, hotels, or rental cars and you may discover a jazz festival the same weekend of your class and everything is booked solid. When booking a flight check the airline's policies for flying with firearms. Normally you'll need more ammo than you can fly with, so buy and ship ammunition in advance, with time to confirm its arrival prior to the class. If you are driving to a course check each state you pass through for their laws on transporting firearms.
Use the time between registration and the class to physically prepare yourself. Fighting "bad guys" for a few days is physically and mentally demanding, especially if you normally sit behind a desk 40 hours a week. Go for long walks, use small dumbbells to exercise your arms, and work on stretching out and developing some flexibility.
Every class I've ever attended had an equipment list. And I can tell you as an instructor a major source of frustration is students showing up without the proper gear. In part II of this series we'll look at gear you'll need to make your training better.
Tiger McKee is director of Shootrite Firearms Academy, located in northern Alabama, author of The Book of Two Guns, a staff member of several firearms/tactical publications, and an adjunct instructor for the F.B.I. (256) 582-4777 Shootrite Firearms Academy
Training means learning the rules. Experience means learning the exceptions.
October 15th, 2009 09:51 AM
I did martial arts when I was younger. I started off with Kuk Sool Won and later the group I was with broke off from the association and we started Combat Hapkido. It shares some of the program with other Hapkido forms but its main focus is ground grappling. We'd actually spar sometimes starting from the ground and the one thing they taught over anything else is to use your legs. This wasn't like your average martial arts class where everyone had a form that was like a fancy dance to complete for your next belt, Combat Hapkido doesn't have any. It is strictly an SD course. The first part is to train you how to stay off the ground, the second part is to train on what to do when you end up on the ground. It's not a very smooth form of martial arts. I'd say this would be the perfect down and dirty training that you could actually apply to the street.
Originally Posted by Eagleks
October 15th, 2009 12:04 PM
KM also believes in staying off the ground, but they train for what to do if you end up there. (Main goal being to get up without getting creamed in the process.)
Thankfully they let us use wraps and gloves. I understand the point of full contact fof training but I'm not even kinda there yet.
I'm going to have to chop my fingernails down. Aside from hurting myself if one breaks below skin level, there is concern about hurting the other person.
As for pistol SD, I have a couple of days of training on that at the end of the month. But I believe empty hand training requires way more than a one-off.
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